Crash in Carrollton GA 2 airplanes down, 3 dead.

Everskyward said:
If I want to run any type of errand, go to work, go anywhere actually, I need to do it in my car. I can walk to the mailbox structure but it's a mile away. I wouldn't do any of these things in an airplane, except maybe travel to a destination that is >100 miles away. But then I would need to drive to the airport.
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Helicopter. That's the answer. We all need helicopters ;-)
 
Everskyward said:
Like other adventure sports, it's not something most people need to do. Unless you live in a city with good public transportation you need to drive.

My perception, having been a pilot all my adult life, is that you are more likely to lose your life flying than driving. I know many people who have died in airplanes. Cars, not so much. But it's up to the individual to make their own decision.
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Personally, I know far more people who died in car crashes than air crashes. Life has risks. The risk/benefit analysis on flying for me easily falls on the side of "keep flying."
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think I know anyone who died in a boat although I do know someone who died in a bathtub...
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A friend died falling down. Fell flat on his face during an epileptic type seizure at home and jammed his nose into his brain. On carpet even.

Seizures were brought on by a slip and fall and a head injury on ice about three years prior. He hated the anti-seizure meds and most of us think he'd stopped taking them.

Nobody thought anything of him not coming into the office where he worked for a few days...

Sheriff's deputies were finally called to do a welfare check, after his boss and another friend who was one of his co-workers and probably one of his best friends, asked them to, they broke in and found him, face down in the hallway.

Anything can get ya. People just act like it won't be them. Any one of us could be gone tomorrow of a multitude of things.

LDJones said:
I never contemplate not driving after a fatal car crash. I'd rather go out in a crash than live without flying. But everyone has to make their own priorities.
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Great wording. Couldn't have said it better. Just don't anyone use that damned phrase, "He died doing what he loved" if I bite it in an airplane. I loved flying. Not crashing. Seriously.

Tarheelpilot said:
Helicopter. That's the answer. We all need helicopters ;-)
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Three dead a few days ago in a big Sikorsky too. Doesn't help. :(
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Or, even worse, having a radio, being on the right frequency and not making proper/timely calls.
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I don't know about the Bo pilot, but those students out of FFC while almost clog the freq with their calls, at least when I've been around them.
 
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Is it me or do both planes seem to have been in landing configuration? The DA20 was certainly full flaps and the Bo had landing gear down and appears to have flaps down. Such a shame!
 
wilzup said:
Is it me or do both planes seem to have been in landing configuration? The DA20 was certainly full flaps and the Bo had landing gear down and appears to have flaps down. Such a shame!
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According to the people who watched it unfold, both planes were on approach to land and one overtook the other.
 
iamtheari said:
They just assume that everyone who buys life insurance also drives a car. That's a fair enough assumption. Flying GA is uncommon enough to deserve a separate risk calculus from the rest of the risk pool they are working with. It doesn't mean that flying GA is riskier. It just means that it is a less popular selected risk.
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But, in truth it is much more risky. Insurance companies know this.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
According to the people who watched it unfold, both planes were on approach to land and one overtook the other.
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Wow, that's a bit unusual for one to overtake the other. This is of course if one is coming up on the other plane from behind if both were on final? Is that what you're saying Cajun? Wow just wow if that's the case.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
According to the people who watched it unfold, both planes were on approach to land and one overtook the other.
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I would assume that the Bo was overtaking the DA20 given the faster approach speed. He must have come down on top of the DA20. Too bad there is no recording of the CTAF. That would tell a lot of the story. Very unfortunate deal.
 
No reason to think the Bo was faster and overcoming the DA20.

Where did that come from?
 
mscard88 said:
Wow, that's a bit unusual for one to overtake the other. This is of course if one is coming up on the other plane from behind if both were on final? Is that what you're saying Cajun? Wow just wow if that's the case.
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No....that's not at all unusual. In fact that's how most midairs occur in the pattern or near the airport, one aircraft overtaking the Other! read up on it. Relying simply on looking out the window, not using the radio out out of stubbornness or ignorance is criminal. Like texting in a moving car, really dumb, all helping ga to get a bad name. You cannot see through the bottom of an airplane! In this case one aircraft did in fact overtake the other on final.
 
mscard88 said:
Wow, that's a bit unusual for one to overtake the other. This is of course if one is coming up on the other plane from behind if both were on final? Is that what you're saying Cajun? Wow just wow if that's the case.
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I'm not saying anything, just restating what was in the news. Eyewitness reports aren't always the most accurate, so who knows what really happened.
 
Easy Cajun! :D

I can see one descending down upon the other, which is a classic TP collision, especially a low wing descending onto a high wing. But if they both were already on final and one ran into the other from behind that is unusual. If this is the case it's so senseless.

Read the update from Cajun's post above. I do know Falcon Academy, one of our pilots (actually VP Flight Ops) at the airline I flew at (ASA) was part owner. Knew a few folks who went thru their school, and a few employees. Such a shame, 24 years old and no doubt working towards her goals in aviation. RIP to all that lost their lives.

We had a Brasilia crash not far from Carrolton years ago and I was friends with the Captain. They were climbing out of ATL and a blade on the left engine snapped off. He got it into a field and saved about half of the passengers lives along with the FO and FA. I know a lot of pilots that live in that area, some fly out of Carrolton and a few live in fly in communities.
 
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Checkout_my_Six said:
There are infanante possibilities. Over taking the DA20 is but one.

Btw... What happens to visibility when one turns base to final?
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Anything is possible. Witness statements indicated that both were attempting to land and one overtook the other. My only point was that since the Bo should have been faster on short final, it stands to reason that the Bo was the one overtaking the DA20.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
There are infanante possibilities. Over taking the DA20 is but one.

Btw... What happens to visibility when one turns base to final?
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In either of these planes the rear plane should have had a good view of the aircraft ahead of them...unless the rear plane was doing an unannounced straight in approach.
 
Unless the rear plane was slightly higher.
Where is that video of the guy landing when that twin blows right over the top of him. Scary stuff.
 
I was going to argue that given a normal range of glideslopes, surely one of the two would see the other out in front in an overtaking situation.

But, it's possible they were flying close to the same speed, on slightly different glide paths, and their vertical separation went to zero just before the threshold.

I was flying around locally yesterday morning. Air was like glass. I'm looking out the window, sightseeing, and had a wave of paranoia strike me about midairs. What a crappy way to go! Needless to say I was scanning for other traffic like crazy the rest of the flight.
 
Too many what ifs ----- easy to see one over taking the other on final in any number of situations --- what if one is on a tight base to final and the other a high fast straight in dropping down on top? Bottom line it is very sad and seems to me to come back down to lack of radio use.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
In either of these planes the rear plane should have had a good view of the aircraft ahead of them...unless the rear plane was doing an unannounced straight in approach.
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That's kind of my thinking. If the DA20 is a student in the pattern making base to final turn the wing would obscure the Bo if it were coming in high on a straight in final. The DA20 can be a tricky plane to spot and if the Bo was already coming in high into the pattern the pilot would never see the Diamond.

Pure speculation and I mean no disrespect. Just trying to piece things together.
 
labbadabba said:
That's kind of my thinking. If the DA20 is a student in the pattern making base to final turn the wing would obscure the Bo if it were coming in high on a straight in final. The DA20 can be a tricky plane to spot and if the Bo was already coming in high into the pattern the pilot would never see the Diamond.

Pure speculation and I mean no disrespect. Just trying to piece things ow the (low) wing of a DA20 to ob
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Sorry about the inadvertent re-post above. I was going to add that it is good practice to approach an airport at pattern altitude to get a good look at what's going on; of course this is when landing and recognition lighting should
be on, as well as transmitting/receiving traffic advisories, and keep your head and eyes out of the cockpit throughout the approach, pattern, and landing phase. I would be interested in seeing any radar data to determine if a straight-in could have contributed to this accident. Fly safely, and count your blessings.
 
My takeaway. Use the radio, make position reports, assume others are not. All lights blazing and blinking in the pattern. Scan final high and low when on downwind. Square turns to base and final, scanning final high and low. If you are making a straight in (not advocating that you should) make slight S turns. Not S turns really, just enough to get the cowl out of the way of the view of final. Little forward slips, left and right are a great tool for forward visibility.
 
Bobanna said:
I would be interested in seeing any radar data to determine if a straight-in could have contributed to this accident. Fly safely, and count your blessings.
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The only thing for the Bo on FlightAware is over a year old. He did a straight in there...but it was into a towered field so no issues. I did not catch the tail number on the DA.
 
mscard88 said:
We had a Brasilia crash not far from Carrolton years ago and I was friends with the Captain. They were climbing out of ATL and a blade on the left engine snapped off. He got it into a field and saved about half of the passengers lives along with the FO and FA.
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This right?

 
orange said:
This right?

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Yea, brought back that sickening feeling, poor Ed. I might try to watch the video but I may not finish. I couldn't finish the book a few years ago. Met his beautiful wife and two fine looking boys once at the crash pad. Real close family. When I left 3 years ago the FO was still flying but only flys in the winter months because of the burns he received. He got a ton of $$ from the lawsuit against Hamilton Standard and certainly does not need to work. Lives in CO. Great guy who even jokes about his burns and appearance. Robin, the FA, tried to come back and the Company gradually exposed her back to it. But she couldn't do it any longer and never came back. I always felt Ed's GA background (CFI etc) really helped him get into that field and almost pull it off. He almost did and saved about half of his passengers. We actually had two crashes as a result of prop blade failure, the other one in Brunswick GA that took the life of everyone aboard including Sen John Tower from TX and an astronaut who's name escapes me.
 
Here's how it can happen:


This is why stating your ALTITUDE and TREND is so important in CTAF calls. We will NOT hit if we're not at the same altitude... "left downwind, level 1600", "2 miles north, 2000 descending 1600" are much better than "left downwind" or "2 miles north, inbound". I'd much rather say "1600" than "traffic pattern altitude", also, because your definition of TPA may be different than mine, depending on which source we used to come to the number.
 
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I would like to add my own speculation.
TangoWhiskey said:
Here's how it can happen:


This is why stating your ALTITUDE and TREND is so important in CTAF calls. We will NOT hit if we're not at the same altitude... "left downwind, level 1600", "2 miles north, 2000 descending 1600" are much better than "left downwind" or "2 miles north, inbound". I'd much rather say "1600" than "traffic pattern altitude", also, because your definition of TPA may be different than mine, depending on which source we used to come to the number.
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good god, that red plane needs to talk on the radio.
 
T
N747JB said:
I don't know about the Bo pilot, but those students out of FFC while almost clog the freq with their calls, at least when I've been around them.
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I have been out flying in that area a lot and not only do they clog the freq, you can't understand a word they say unless you speak Chinese, that flight school has many foreign students and like in FL when the pilot mills were running, you could not understand any of them down there as well and after 9/11 it cleared that issue up, I have to wonder if the language barriers had a role in this accident, Just saying.
 
N747JB said:
I don't know about the Bo pilot, but those students out of FFC while almost clog the freq with their calls, at least when I've been around them.
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Yeah, they certainly do jam up the frequencies with their not-so-good English. Their traffic patterns can be somewhat interesting as well - a teardrop to the 45 for the downwind. ???

I certainly don't rely on them for accurate position reports outside of the pattern.

mscard88 said:
Yea, brought back that sickening feeling, poor Ed. I might try to watch the video but I may not finish. I couldn't finish the book a few years ago. Met his beautiful wife and two fine looking boys once at the crash pad. Real close family. When I left 3 years ago the FO was still flying but only flys in the winter months because of the burns he received. He got a ton of $$ from the lawsuit against Hamilton Standard and certainly does not need to work. Lives in CO. Great guy who even jokes about his burns and appearance. Robin, the FA, tried to come back and the Company gradually exposed her back to it. But she couldn't do it any longer and never came back. I always felt Ed's GA background (CFI etc) really helped him get into that field and almost pull it off. He almost did and saved about half of his passengers. We actually had two crashes as a result of prop blade failure, the other one in Brunswick GA that took the life of everyone aboard including Sen John Tower from TX and an astronaut who's name escapes me.
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I was going to post that video but really didn't want to bring up any memories for you. I can understand that it's tough thinking back. My dad lost a couple of his buddies in the Roselawn ATR crash. He certainly doesn't like when it's brought up.
 
This accident at a relatively quiet airport, should give every pilot reason to get a heads up attitude and keep your head on a swivel, anyone who is going to an upcoming fly in such as Triple Tree, or any other upcoming fly-in, where there will be a lot of traffic, needs to be sharp, let's all be very safe.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
A teardrop to the 45 for the downwind. ???
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A lot of schools are teaching this now. I understand what they're saying now, but will admit when I first heard someone make this call, I thought they were passing over the field at a 45, then doing a teardrop around to final. Turns out someone decided it's safer to go over mid-field higher than pattern altitude, then do a teardrop to enter on a 45 to downwind. I'll continue to just cross over mid-field and turn directly into downwind. I like to stay closer to the airport.
 
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