Cost of upgrading Garmin GTX 330 to 330ES

[SkyVoyager]

I see a lot of discussion on this, but I can't find the simple answer from someone who has gone through this.

What does it cost (approximately) to upgrade the Garmin GTX330 to 330ES? What is involved? I assume the unit is modified by Garmin, but what other modifications to the aircraft are necessary?

 

[tonyholland00]

I see a lot of discussion on this, but I can't find the simple answer from someone who has gone through this.

What does it cost (approximately) to upgrade the Garmin GTX330 to 330ES? What is involved? I assume the unit is modified by Garmin, but what other modifications to the aircraft are necessary?

I was just quoted $1500.00 yesterday.

 

[airdale]

... what other modifications to the aircraft are necessary?

You will also have to have it connected to a WAAS GPS navigator. That's new wring, though not a lot. If you don't have a WAAS signal for it, you can't do ADS-B out.

 

[SkyVoyager]

You will also have to have it connected to a WAAS GPS navigator. That's new wring, though not a lot. If you don't have a WAAS signal for it, you can't do ADS-B out.

My GTX330 is currently connected to my Garmin 430W. Does it need additional wiring? (I thought that was sufficient)

 

[airdale]

I thought that was sufficient.

Sounds like someone was thinking ahead! Probably it is. Your shop will have to say, though.

 

[John Collins]

My GTX330 is currently connected to my Garmin 430W. Does it need additional wiring? (I thought that was sufficient)

It depends on what was hooked up. It is not likely that the serial interface between the GNS430W and the GTX330 is hooked up as it would serve no purpose prior to adding ES.

 

[SkyVoyager]

It depends on what was hooked up. It is not likely that the serial interface between the GNS430W and the GTX330 is hooked up as it would serve no purpose prior to adding ES.

Perhaps I should track down a wiring diagram, but how does the TIS traffic data transfer to the 430 to be displayed? (Current setup)

 

[John Collins]

Perhaps I should track down a wiring diagram, but how does the TIS traffic data transfer to the 430 to be displayed? (Current setup)

TIS is interfaced to the GNS530W from the GTX330 using ARINC 429. The GTX330ES position source is from the GNS430W serial out. It should be a one shielded wire add.

 

[flyingron]

It depends on what was hooked up. It is not likely that the serial interface between the GNS430W and the GTX330 is hooked up as it would serve no purpose prior to adding ES.

Mode S TIS service is the usual reason they were connected.

 

[comanchepilot]

I have often wondered about the requirement for a WAAS signal . . . .30 feet of accuracy in a non-waas GPS is not good enough? Its less than the wingspan of many aircraft. . . .

Other than enriching Garmin, whats the point?

 

[John Collins]

I have often wondered about the requirement for a WAAS signal . . . .30 feet of accuracy in a non-waas GPS is not good enough? Its less than the wingspan of many aircraft. . . .

Other than enriching Garmin, whats the point?

There isn't a requirement for WAAS. However, a WAAS GPS can meet the requirement. It is not a just a question of accuracy. AC 20-165A provides a means for certifying a position source and it permits TSO C129/C145/C146/C196 position sources if they can meet or be modified to meet the requirements in appendix 3 of the AC. This is a very detailed, point by point set of requirements. My guess is that no existing C129/C129A GPS used by GA that could meet the requirements without significant engineering effort and testing. IOW, it won't happen. TSO C196 is a new TSO for non WAAS GPS.

 

[CardinalFlyer835]

My GTX330 is currently connected to my Garmin 430W. Does it need additional wiring? (I thought that was sufficient)

My GTX 330 was just upgraded to ES. I was billed $1200 plus shipping costs, and 1.5 hours of labor. The back of the racks need to be accessed in order to add a single RS232 signal that provides position data from the 430W to the transponder. The firmware in the 430W also had to be updated, but that was done by my local avionics shop.
During the install, the shop called and asked for my preferences on the following items:

1. Will I be using an ADS-B display device?
I don't understand this option, but I am guessing that if the GTX330 tells the ground station that there is no display capability, then the ground station won't bother sending any traffic data.

2. ADS-B Out transmit mode:
a) Always on
b) Always off
c) Pilot selectable

When I asked how I could possibly be in compliance with the 2020 mandate if my ADS-B transponder is not transmitting ADS-B data , the reply was that even after 2020, It will still be legal to fly around in class G airspace with no ADS-B out, hence the option.

 

[John Collins]

My GTX 330 was just upgraded to ES. I was billed $1200 plus shipping costs, and 1.5 hours of labor. The back of the racks need to be accessed in order to add a single RS232 signal that provides position data from the 430W to the transponder. The firmware in the 430W also had to be updated, but that was done by my local avionics shop.
During the install, the shop called and asked for my preferences on the following items:

1. Will I be using an ADS-B display device?
I don't understand this option, but I am guessing that if the GTX330 tells the ground station that there is no display capability, then the ground station won't bother sending any traffic data.

2. ADS-B Out transmit mode:
a) Always on
b) Always off
c) Pilot selectable

When I asked how I could possibly be in compliance with the 2020 mandate if my ADS-B transponder is not transmitting ADS-B data , the reply was that even after 2020, It will still be legal to fly around in class G airspace with no ADS-B out, hence the option.

If you have a portable ADS-B like the Stratus 1 or Skyradar single frequency, have the "ADS-B In" configured for UAT. If you have a dual frequency ADS-B receiver, you can also configure it for 1090ES, but you might want to leave this setting off, even though you have the 1090ES receive capability. That way the GBT will send the 1090ES from the ground. This will provide you with two ways of receiving the 1090ES broadcasts, via air to air, and via GBT to air. If you don't choose either, then the GBT will not broadcast anything for you as a client, no receiver, why bother.

I would select the pilot selectable option.

You should also get two new AFMS for your aircraft. One for the GNS530W with software version 5.03 and the other for the GTX330ES with software version 7.02.

 

[Carl C]

I had my GTX 330 upgraded to ES and my 530w upgraded as well to be compliant. When I picked the plane up the 330 indicated it was ADS-B out. However, I have not been able to receive TIS-B from any ground stations. I have read that the 330 must be configured to include in its out single that the aircraft is capable of receiving 978UAT and 1090 es traffic. I have a GDL 39 that receives other signals fine. Can you advise if this is correct and if so what the 330 settings should be?

The cost was $2,200 for the ES upgrade to the GTX330, upgrade of the 530w, and the GDL 39.

 

[jbarrass]

We just had it done $1400 for the box and $100 installation.

 

[John Collins]

I had my GTX 330 upgraded to ES and my 530w upgraded as well to be compliant. When I picked the plane up the 330 indicated it was ADS-B out. However, I have not been able to receive TIS-B from any ground stations. I have read that the 330 must be configured to include in its out single that the aircraft is capable of receiving 978UAT and 1090 es traffic. I have a GDL 39 that receives other signals fine. Can you advise if this is correct and if so what the 330 settings should be?

Yes, there are settings that need to be set on by the installer. The setting "ADS-B TX" should be set to "enable"; "1090 IN" should be set to "YES" and "UAT IN" should be set to "YES".

 

[Carl C]

John,
Every thing is as you said. I had a fellow tell me that a setting should be 1E7 for ADS-B, but mine is set for GPS Integerity at 1E5. Is that anything?

 

[John Collins]

John,
Every thing is as you said. I had a fellow tell me that a setting should be 1E7 for ADS-B, but mine is set for GPS Integerity at 1E5. Is that anything?

It should be set to 1E7 for the STC in order to comply with the 2020 rule.

 

[CT Arrow]

I just upgraded my transponder to an "ES" and added a GDL-39 that is tied into the 796. The 796 provides WX and ADS-B traffic. Sadly, the 530W would not display WX or ADS-B traffic from the GDL-39.

So far ADS-B is working out rather well for both WX and traffic.

 

[Carl C]

Thanks John.

 

[Carl C]

John,
Would that setting prevent me from receiving TIS-B traffic?

 

[John Collins]

John,
Would that setting prevent me from receiving TIS-B traffic?

I don't think so.

 

[Carl C]

I just flew from Kansas City to Fort Worth and had ADS-B weather all the way, but traffic was a degraded TIS-B and that seemed to drop out shortly after I was out of range of the TIS displayed on my 530. I always had the traffic that was broadcast on 1090 from other aircraft. I will have the setting changed and see if that makes any difference. One Garmin tech suggested that I just got a defective GDL 39.

 

[Carl C]

John,
I had the setting changed to the 1E7, but that didn't seem to make any difference. I had degraded TIS-B from MKC to RFD last week end. However, while I was at AirVenture, I stopped by Garmin and talked to their service people. They said there was a firmware upgrade to the GDL 39 that was released on Monday. I updated the GDL 39 and rebooted my iPad. What do you know, I had full TIS-B traffic all the way from OSH to OJC. On one occasion, I was tracking a TIS target on the 530 and on the 696. I ran out of TIS coverage and the target disappeared from the 530, but remained on the 696 and the iPad.

 

[frfly172]

So the I pad will get full traffic through the stratus box if I upgrade to the 330 es ?

 

[Clark1961]

So the I pad will get full traffic through the stratus box if I upgrade to the 330 es ?

As long as the 330 ES is actually sending data and the Stratus can "see" a tower, yes.

The Stratus also picks up traffic from direct broadcast of other folks' ES or ADS-B out.

I had the 330 ES installed a couple months ago and the 430W software had to be upgraded to feed "legal" position data to the ES.

Anyway, flying with the Stratus II and an Ipad III and it all seems to be working fine. Near as I can tell, I see most of what ATC sees. It really helps with traffic avoidance by allowing one to plan their route to go where other folks aren't.

 

[John Collins]

So the I pad will get full traffic through the stratus box if I upgrade to the 330 es ?

A Stratus II will, assuming the GTX330ES is properly configured for UAT In and 1090 In. The same should be true for a Stratus I, except the GTX330 would be configured for just UAT In.

 

[frfly172]

Thanks I guess it's time to upgrade the 330

 

[Clark1961]

A Stratus II will, assuming the GTX330ES is properly configured for UAT In and 1090 In. The same should be true for a Stratus I, except the GTX330 would be configured for just UAT In.

Ummm, as I understand it the 330 ES only does 1090 with ES out and TIS-B in. UAT is a different frequency - 978 and the 330 ES doesn't transmit or receive UAT.

I agree that the Stratus I is UAT in only and the Stratus II is both 1090 & UAT in.

 

[frfly172]

Thanks using an IPad 3 and a stratus two.

 

[John Collins]

Ummm, as I understand it the 330 ES only does 1090 with ES out and TIS-B in. UAT is a different frequency - 978 and the 330 ES doesn't transmit or receive UAT.

I agree that the Stratus I is UAT in only and the Stratus II is both 1090 & UAT in.

The GTX330ES only does 1090ES Out and has no ADS-B In capability built in. However, you set configuration bits in the GTX330ES to indicate to the ground station that the aircraft is equipped with ADS-B In capability. The Stratus I and II are ADS-B In portable devices. You will receiver weather and some traffic on them if you don't have ADS-B Out installed, but to receive all of the ADS-B traffic from the ground station, you need to have a means of informing the ground station that your aircraft is equipped with ADS-B In. This is accomplished by setting the appropriate configuration in the GTX330ES.

The GTX330ES also has mode S TIS. Mode S TIS is not ADS-B, but provides a crude traffic function provided by the Mode S radar site.

 

[Clark1961]

The GTX330ES only does 1090ES Out and has no ADS-B In capability built in. However, you set configuration bits in the GTX330ES to indicate to the ground station that the aircraft is equipped with ADS-B In capability. The Stratus I and II are ADS-B In portable devices. You will receiver weather and some traffic on them if you don't have ADS-B Out installed, but to receive all of the ADS-B traffic from the ground station, you need to have a means of informing the ground station that your aircraft is equipped with ADS-B In. This is accomplished by setting the appropriate configuration in the GTX330ES.

The GTX330ES also has mode S TIS. Mode S TIS is not ADS-B, but provides a crude traffic function provided by the Mode S radar site.

much better description - not nearly as misleading as the previous post.

 

[John Collins]

much better description - not nearly as misleading as the previous post.

Sorry you didn't understand my previous post, but it was accurate. I find your comment offensive as it attributes motivations that don't exist.

A Stratus II will, assuming the GTX330ES is properly configured for UAT In and 1090 In. The same should be true for a Stratus I, except the GTX330 would be configured for just UAT In.

Here is what I was referring to in the GTX330ES in my statements, from the GTX330ES STC Install manual:

View attachment gtx330es adsb configuration.pdf

 

[tdfuller]

Great thread.

I have a 530W and a Garmin GTX330. A few months ago I got a Garmin GDL 39 to display FIS-B weather and occasional traffic when I can "piggyback" from another aircraft that is "waking up" ground stations with their ADS-B out signal, on a Thinkpad Tablet.

I am ready to get full traffic. In the spring, when my next two year IFR/pitot-static is due, I am going to ask my avionics tech to upgrade my GTX330 to ES.

After reading this thread, I should have the tech set the settings of the GTX330ES to:

1) ABS-B TX - PILOT ENABLE
2) 1090-IN - ENABLE
3) UAT-IN - ENABLE


Any other settings I should make sure the avionics tech does right the first time?

I'd like to ensure I can display full traffic using my portable GDL 39 and tablet (Garmin Pilot), when the ADS-B Out is set.

Thanks

 

[amekler]

Sorry you didn't understand my previous post, but it was accurate. I find your comment offensive as it attributes motivations that don't exist.



Here is what I was referring to in the GTX330ES in my statements, from the GTX330ES STC Install manual:

View attachment 30708

John,
I just upgraded my gtx330 to 330 ES. I have a stratus 2. I still see tis-A traffic on my 430W but no Tis_B traffic on my iPad(FOREFLIGHT). I have left my transponder and 430W on and walked 50 feet away with the Stratus and iPad and my plane doesn't show . Do you think my GTX330Es is configured wrong wrong?
Is this something I scan change or does it have to go back to the avionics shop?
Alan

 

[John Collins]

John,
I just upgraded my gtx330 to 330 ES. I have a stratus 2. I still see tis-A traffic on my 430W but no Tis_B traffic on my iPad(FOREFLIGHT). I have left my transponder and 430W on and walked 50 feet away with the Stratus and iPad and my plane doesn't show . Do you think my GTX330Es is configured wrong wrong?
Is this something I scan change or does it have to go back to the avionics shop?
Alan

It is probably not configured properly by the avionics shop. I have attached a screen shot of the configuration they need to set to make it work.

TIS-A doesn't stand for anything, but I know what you mean, Mode S TIS.



There is also a possibility you did not set the Traffic layer to on in ForeFlight on the Map page.

 

[amekler]

John,
Thanks for your help. I thought it was a problem with my Stratus 2 so I sent it back and they sent me another unit. I do have traffic turned on on Foreflight.
Can i do the settings myself or must i go back to the avionics guy?
Regards,
Alan

 

[John Collins]

John,
Thanks for your help. I thought it was a problem with my Stratus 2 so I sent it back and they sent me another unit. I do have traffic turned on on Foreflight.
Can i do the settings myself or must i go back to the avionics guy?
Regards,
Alan

It should go back to the avionics shop. These settings can be viewed and changed, but there might be other installation configuration data that needs to be reviewed by the avionics shop. Before you mess with it, the Stratus 2 should be able to decode your ADS-B Out and display your N number. If it can't do that, then the shop needs to finish the incomplete installation. If you send me a PM with your email address, I will send you more data.

 

[NoHeat]

Wow, as a customer, how would you know whether the shop did the installation correctly, upgrading for ADS-B, if you don't have a Stratus to test it yourself?

 

[amekler]

Good question.
I asked ATC if they were receiving my ADS-B out and all the can tell me is they are receiving my transponder. Apparently they can't tell that you are transmitting ADS-B out.

Alan