Coronavirus hysteria is hurting every one.

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Kristin said:
On the positive side economically, the virus will likely ravage the ranks of social security and Medicare recipients, so it might have the positive effect of reforming entitlements without Congress doing anything.
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In Michigan anyway, that theory doesn't seem to be playing out so far. We've had 4 deaths to date. One was 81, the other 3 were in their 50's.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
In Michigan anyway, that theory doesn't seem to be playing out so far. We've had 4 deaths to date. One was 81, the other 3 were in their 50's.
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Did the 50’s have underlying health conditions? Guessing yes.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Or however many billion China is.

Still not scared.
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What does your not being scared have to do with my effort to get people to think about percentage of confirmed and deaths in each of the countries. Think about the math.

I sincerely hope that you’re not being scared is not to say that you’re not obeying requests to be safe.
 
Kristin said:
On the positive side economically, the virus will likely ravage the ranks of social security and Medicare recipients, so it might have the positive effect of reforming entitlements without Congress doing anything. Add back in an estate tax and maybe we balance the budget.
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The analyst in me would like to see some academic number crunching on this. Mostly because of morbid curiosity; Medicare by far is the system for which spending is growing out of control. Which costs less? The unsuccesull treatment for COVID-19 or normal age care for those over 65. (I say this as my dad is in the hospital on a ventilator with COVID-19; he got it skiing in Colorado!).

Tim
 
jspilot said:
Just a quick thought here- why is the “death rate” the number being reported— the same statistic could be called the “ survival rate.” I think we all know the answer and, by no means am I trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation but it’s fair to say that panic and hysteria have never once helped a single situation.

Remember when we were all going through initial PPL training and we were taught that in an emergency the thing you do above all is “ fly the plane.” Seems to me we need more of that mindset right now. Stay focused on the important things like keeping yourself safe and isolated and these survival statistics, or death rates equally true, will no longer be of concern.
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I just added the information I found in case anyone cared to see it or discuss it.

Be careful with any thoughts around here. You'll be called stupid by those with different thoughts.. or maybe worse.
 
Kristin said:
How do we know that? We don't know how many people will die if we don't quarantine and we don't know how many will die if we shut down the economy. Italy has not been really effectively quarantining and has been slow off the mark like us. They have so far lost about 4,000 to the virus. Our population is about 5.5 times that of Italy. That would put us at about 22-23,000 casualties, and that assumes things don't get worse which they certainly will if we just go about our lives as normal. Likely in that scenario, 23K deaths would be a mere down payment.

On the positive side economically, the virus will likely ravage the ranks of social security and Medicare recipients, so it might have the positive effect of reforming entitlements without Congress doing anything. Add back in an estate tax and maybe we balance the budget.
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I agreed with the first paragraph, but looking forward to the old folks dying off in the second paragraph is pretty disgusting.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Did the 50’s have underlying health conditions? Guessing yes.
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Two yes. One either no or undetermined.

Edit: Looks like all 3 had underlying health conditions.
 
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A lot of the 'millenials' around here were calling it the "Boomer remover".

They aren't talking so much now.

But neither of those statements make me happy.

Also, we had a local girl go to the hospital with 107 temp.
They checked her for the flu, then refused to test her for Covid-19.

Makes me wonder if they are being very selective about age groups...she was pretty young, around 22 or so.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I agreed with the first paragraph, but looking forward to the old folks dying off in the second paragraph is pretty disgusting.
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Interestingly, I disagree with the first paragraph and understand what was intended in the second, and it wasn’t how you took it.

To ignore the fact that old people are going to die is part of what is causing this irrational response in the first place. Sure it sucks. It always sucks. But it’s the only thing that’s certain to happen to everyone born. I know it’s not popular to admit it out loud, but they are going to die. So are you.

I know many will disagree with me, but I doubt the death rate will be noticeably different in the long run whether we quarantine ourselves or not. But some will feel better thinking they “did everything they could”. With a rare exception of a couple of old people that might have gotten better care if we slowed the spread, there will be no difference. We can’t prevent the spread, most will end up getting it. The effects will be the same. I’d rather not add the destruction of the economy and frankly our society to that. I mean seriously we are talking about not teaching a single student in an airplane because we might get the flu? That is insane. That is putting a tourniquet around your neck. Such a great description by half fast.

ps, I’ll bet that instructor still uses the gas pump that 100 others used, and picks up their mail that a 100 others touched. Wash your hands a few extra times and that’ll be ok. But don’t talk to one person in a small enclosed space. Omg!

pss, I figured social media would have something to do with societies downfall, but I never guessed it would happen like this. You don’t need to go outside, or to work, you can use computers to stay social. Stranger than fiction. Bad B sci-fi movies are more believable than this.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
What does your not being scared have to do with my effort to get people to think about percentage of confirmed and deaths in each of the countries. Think about the math.

I sincerely hope that you’re not being scared is not to say that you’re not obeying requests to be safe.
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I am not good at ‘obeying’, never have been. but I am using common sense, like I do during every flu season. Not rubbing my eye or picking my nose, unless I wash my hands first. But I still go to work with people around. I still go to the store for whatever, even non-essentials. If open I would still be going to restaurants, but not buffets but then I never did buffets, as they are disgusting. My wife is a hospital floor nurse, exposed to all sorts of stuff and this has served me well in 25 yrs.

Life is a managed risk activity just like flying. Not gonna stop flying. Not gonna stop living.

And I do feel that this response is generally irrational and over the top and is likely worse than the disease, but I can only control myself.

Not scared.
 
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I still don’t understand how the comment you made in response to my post. It was non sequitur. If you would have taken the time to look at the numbers I was pointing out and could understand them, you would have seen that I was pointing out that our numbers are not as bad as Italy or Spain.

You say you don’t like to obey, but you are doing all the things they are requesting whether or not you are told as am I. Not respecting authority is not something to brag about. That said, this doesn’t mean you should jump off a cliff when your told, but there are times to cooperate as much as is practical.
 
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Kristin said:
How do we know that? We don't know how many people will die if we don't quarantine and we don't know how many will die if we shut down the economy. Italy has not been really effectively quarantining and has been slow off the mark like us. They have so far lost about 4,000 to the virus. Our population is about 5.5 times that of Italy. That would put us at about 22-23,000 casualties, and that assumes things don't get worse which they certainly will if we just go about our lives as normal. Likely in that scenario, 23K deaths would be a mere down payment.

On the positive side economically, the virus will likely ravage the ranks of social security and Medicare recipients, so it might have the positive effect of reforming entitlements without Congress doing anything. Add back in an estate tax and maybe we balance the budget.
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Just out of curiosity, did you notice that he said "likely harm or kill", not "will harm or kill"? There is a difference.
 
Salty said:
Interestingly, I disagree with the first paragraph and understand what was intended in the second, and it wasn’t how you took it.

To ignore the fact that old people are going to die is part of what is causing this irrational response in the first place. Sure it sucks. It always sucks. But it’s the only thing that’s certain to happen to everyone born. I know it’s not popular to admit it out loud, but they are going to die. So are you.

I know many will disagree with me, but I doubt the death rate will be noticeably different in the long run whether we quarantine ourselves or not. But some will feel better thinking they “did everything they could”. With a rare exception of a couple of old people that might have gotten better care if we slowed the spread, there will be no difference. We can’t prevent the spread, most will end up getting it. The effects will be the same. I’d rather not add the destruction of the economy and frankly our society to that. I mean seriously we are talking about not teaching a single student in an airplane because we might get the flu? That is insane. That is putting a tourniquet around your neck. Such a great description by half fast.

ps, I’ll bet that instructor still uses the gas pump that 100 others used, and picks up their mail that a 100 others touched. Wash your hands a few extra times and that’ll be ok. But don’t talk to one person in a small enclosed space. Omg!

pss, I figured social media would have something to do with societies downfall, but I never guessed it would happen like this. You don’t need to go outside, or to work, you can use computers to stay social. Stranger than fiction. Bad B sci-fi movies are more believable than this.
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I am not so stupid that I don’t realize that old people will die. My problem was that in that paragraph it was presented as good news. I never consider the contemplation of ANYONE dying as good news.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I agreed with the first paragraph, but looking forward to the old folks dying off in the second paragraph is pretty disgusting.
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Your sarcasm detector must be broken. Time to order another one from Amazon.
 
My apologies. I did not see the sarcasm. Things been written on a discussion forum don’t come across the same as in person. You can’t see a scowl, a grin, etc.,
 
MBDiagMan said:
I still don’t understand how the comment you made in response to my post. It was non sequitur. If you would have taken the time to look at the numbers I was pointing out and could understand them, you would have seen that I was pointing out that our numbers are not as bad as Italy or Spain.
Maybe I should read your post more closely.

You say you don’t like to obey, but you are doing all the things they are requesting whether or not you are told as am I.

So far I have not been told to do anything that I disagree with. My routine has not been officially disrupted, yet. Nobody has said lock your doors and stay inside. Nobody has asked me for my weapons. I look at traffic signs as a suggestion. Most of the time I take the suggestion as I think it is a good idea.

Not respecting authority is not something to brag about.

I disagree. This country, the greatest country in the world, was founded on disrespecting authority.

That said, this doesn’t mean you should jump off a cliff when your told, but there are times to cooperate as much as is practical.
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I would phrase it more like, sometimes it is just not worth the hassle to tell authority to ‘KMA’.

If authority would just be less stupid, things would be easier for everyone.
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tspear said:
The analyst in me would like to see some academic number crunching on this. Mostly because of morbid curiosity; Medicare by far is the system for which spending is growing out of control. Which costs less? The unsuccesull treatment for COVID-19 or normal age care for those over 65. (I say this as my dad is in the hospital on a ventilator with COVID-19; he got it skiing in Colorado!).

Tim
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I sincerely hope your father recovers with no lasting effects.
 
MBDiagMan said:
My apologies. I did not see the sarcasm. Things been written on a discussion forum don’t come across the same as in person. You can’t see a scowl, a grin, etc.,
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I thought it sufficiently outrageous to be obvious, but then thinking back to the days of the spin zone, I should have tried to find an emoji or something. Being of the demographic apparently most at risk, I don't speak fluent emoji.
 
Starbucks is closing.... the end of the world is here
 
Walboy said:
More lockdowns are unsustainable editorials/opinions in today's WSJ.

"absent a more thorough explanation of the costs and benefits, we doubt these extreme measures will be sustainable for long as the public begins to chafe at the limits and sees the economic consequences"

Maybe toward the end of next week we'll begin to see politicians declare that the curve has been flattened, time to move on to another phase.
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I think there are some politicians that don't understand the impacts of economic collapse and would like to see it happen. Because it creates a new economic order in the country.

I've already had a couple of people on FB try to lecture me on how important it is to lock the country down to make sure every person is protected and in good health, regardless of the cost. And they refuse to accept the fact that without a good functioning economy, there is no money to provide the resources to take care of people. There is a balance that has to be found.
 
tspear said:
The analyst in me would like to see some academic number crunching on this. Mostly because of morbid curiosity; Medicare by far is the system for which spending is growing out of control. Which costs less? The unsuccesull treatment for COVID-19 or normal age care for those over 65. (I say this as my dad is in the hospital on a ventilator with COVID-19; he got it skiing in Colorado!).

Tim
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Hoping for a full recovery for your father...
 
Well, it's another sign of the apocalypse: I went online a few minutes ago to check on ordering BBQ for shipment to my daughter. The local places pack in cryovac and dry ice and ship nationwide. I saw that a couple of the popular options are sold out. I didn't think about people hoarding BBQ, but it does make sense.

I guess it's time for me to fire up the smoker again and think about how much money I am saving.
 
Skyrys62 said:
A lot of the 'millenials' around here were calling it the "Boomer remover".

They aren't talking so much now.

But neither of those statements make me happy.

Also, we had a local girl go to the hospital with 107 temp.
They checked her for the flu, then refused to test her for Covid-19.

Makes me wonder if they are being very selective about age groups...she was pretty young, around 22 or so.
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"Yes, Young People Are Falling Seriously Ill From Covid-19
In the U.S., 705 of first 2,500 cases range in age from 20 to 44."​

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ng-people-is-it-dangerous-data-show-it-can-be

I don't doubt that there will be fewer deaths among the younger groups, however.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I believe all had underlying health conditions.
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so here’s an idea...how about quarantine everyone with underlying health conditions and over a certain age, and let the rest of us go back to normal? Add in a few PSA’s about hygiene. This is what Switzerland did.

well, how about it? As an aside the US is on track to have ~30K fatalities due to influenza this season. Y’all remember influenza, the other viral infection?
 
wsuffa said:
I think there are some politicians that don't understand the impacts of economic collapse and would like to see it happen. Because it creates a new economic order in the country.

I've already had a couple of people on FB try to lecture me on how important it is to lock the country down to make sure every person is protected and in good health, regardless of the cost. And they refuse to accept the fact that without a good functioning economy, there is no money to provide the resources to take care of people. There is a balance that has to be found.
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One problem is that the longer we wait, the more expensive the solution becomes. I'm betting that the Italians are wishing that their lockdowns had been implemented sooner:

Italy’s reported coronavirus death toll grew to more than 4,000 on Friday, outpacing China, a country with more than 20 times its population. The Italian health care system is now buckling under the weight of the pandemic. Health care professionals are working day and night to keep critically ill Covid-19 patients alive, while wartime triage conditions have left doctors to decide who lives and who dies. The crematorium in the hard-hit city of Bergamo is so overwhelmed that the army was brought in to deal with the corpses.
​
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/20/us-coronavirus-outbreak-italy/
 
Palmpilot said:
One problem is that the longer we wait, the more expensive the solution becomes. I'm betting that the Italians are wishing that their lockdowns had been implemented sooner:

Italy’s reported coronavirus death toll grew to more than 4,000 on Friday, outpacing China, a country with more than 20 times its population. The Italian health care system is now buckling under the weight of the pandemic. Health care professionals are working day and night to keep critically ill Covid-19 patients alive, while wartime triage conditions have left doctors to decide who lives and who dies. The crematorium in the hard-hit city of Bergamo is so overwhelmed that the army was brought in to deal with the corpses.
​
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/20/us-coronavirus-outbreak-italy/
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It's always easy to look back, though. This was something that festered for a while and was kept quiet until it broke out. That started the race. Some countries got caught off guard, others not so much. It's like a lot of things, we are always prepared for our last war. Next year, when there's some other virus that flares up reactions will be different because of what we've learned on this one. Right now, it's a matter of which countries are going to be the most resourceful in how they handle this.
 
Kristin said:
I would have put down European, but that wasn't an option and I don't know what "white" means outside the context of the left in which it is not a designator of biological heritage but is a substitute for something like "oppressor pig". I have searched the map and I don't find a geographic region called "Whiteland" or something similar. Are all Europeans white? Spain is in Europe. Are they white? Italians didn't used to be considered "white", but maybe they are now. How about Greeks? Maybe the census should include skin tone chips and we can all pick the one that most closely matches.

Now I will return you to the other off-topic rants. I have had mine. :D
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I was able to write in European when I filled mine out.
 
Salty said:
I know many will disagree with me, but I doubt the death rate will be noticeably different in the long run whether we quarantine ourselves or not. But some will feel better thinking they “did everything they could”. With a rare exception of a couple of old people that might have gotten better care if we slowed the spread, there will be no difference. We can’t prevent the spread, most will end up getting it. The effects will be the same. I’d rather not add the destruction of the economy and frankly our society to that. I mean seriously we are talking about not teaching a single student in an airplane because we might get the flu? That is insane. That is putting a tourniquet around your neck. Such a great description by half fast.

ps, I’ll bet that instructor still uses the gas pump that 100 others used, and picks up their mail that a 100 others touched. Wash your hands a few extra times and that’ll be ok. But don’t talk to one person in a small enclosed space. Omg!

pss, I figured social media would have something to do with societies downfall, but I never guessed it would happen like this. You don’t need to go outside, or to work, you can use computers to stay social. Stranger than fiction. Bad B sci-fi movies are more believable than this.
Click to expand...

Certainly we are not going to stop the spread of the virus entirely. The goal is the flatten the curve (# of people infected) as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. The total number of people infected at the end might still be the same, but if we’ve distributed them across a longer time period we won’t end up collapsing the healthcare system like is happening in Italy. And with a healthcare system that isn’t stressed to the point of breaking, people will be able to get better care and there will be less deaths.
 
Folks, take a look at this website. One can scroll down and see a lot of data and charts. The log scale of new cases is an interesting one to watch. It will allow you to see the rate of new cases. When the curve bends over, we are on the backside of the bell curve the drs talk about.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Also, by looking at China and S. Korea data linked at the bottom, one can see they turned the corner at about the 4-6 week point.
 
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