Control Tower Closure Info

Stupid question...when the towers close, what happens to all of the charted Class D airspace? Does it all remain charted as Class D, but is effectively treated as Class E? In the long term, will all of the Class D around closed towers be removed from charts?
 
The new Branson airport is on the list. Frontier and Southwest both fly airliners into it daily. Anyone know if Frontier and/or Southwest are currently going into any pilot controlled airports? And if not, any speculation on them continuing to fly into Branson or other pilot controlled fields?
 
Mike I said:
Stupid question...when the towers close, what happens to all of the charted Class D airspace?
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Nothing, until the regulation that defines it is re-written (or rather until the appendix to the regulation that defines the class D effective hours gets re-written). Same for the surface-E.

There is no automatic mechanism that links effective times of class D to the opening hours of the tower.
 
Be2atc said:
The FAA towers will take over a year to close due to negotiations with the union. Which is about par. There were 40 or so listed. Also, there are 16 towers not listed today that are cost share, 60% city pay. These will likely close at end of fiscal year.
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The airport's cost share is limited, by law, to 20%.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
The new Branson airport is on the list. Frontier and Southwest both fly airliners into it daily. Anyone know if Frontier and/or Southwest are currently going into any pilot controlled airports? And if not, any speculation on them continuing to fly into Branson or other pilot controlled fields?
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John,
Don't know about Branson but we're on the list at KTTN as well. Frontier just moved in recently. Spokesman told the locals they've committed to staying but said in cases of bad weather, they will be diverting.
 
SSDriver said:
John,
Don't know about Branson but we're on the list at KTTN as well. Frontier just moved in recently. Spokesman told the locals they've committed to staying but said in cases of bad weather, they will be diverting.
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?? How does that make any sense?
 
The County of Ventura airport authority has asked the FAA how much the contract tower at KOXR cost to operate per month, they might try to fund it.
 
kkoran said:
The airport's cost share is limited, by law, to 20%.
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I just saw that. Thanks for the correction. I still believe it should be higher for the local entities. Most of these towers are staffed with 4-5 people. The cost to operate is well below $450k in these instances.

My facility is allowed 7 total. Yet the majority of FAA facilities running operations in the 160k range, as we do, have 20+ and the personnel cost alone is astronomical in comparison.
 
Be2atc said:
My facility is allowed 7 total. Yet the majority of FAA facilities running operations in the 160k range, as we do, have 20+ and the personnel cost alone is astronomical in comparison.
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Looking at that OIG report about comparable FAA and contract towers was interesting. While some FAA facilities manage to cover similar opening hours/movements to the contract towers with similar staffing, others have 3 times the personnel (and no they don't have a tracon). It looks like at some of those FAA facilities there may be room for increased efficiency.
 
weilke said:
Looking at that OIG report about comparable FAA and contract towers was interesting. While some FAA facilities manage to cover similar opening hours/movements to the contract towers with similar staffing, others have 3 times the personnel (and no they don't have a tracon). It looks like at some of those FAA facilities there may be room for increased efficiency.
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The unions drive the staffing required........ Hence the HUGE problem..:mad2:
 
Lmao. That's good. Fcts lost LUAW (POS/HOLD) due to LAX almost a decade ago. If u take away the opportunity yet keep the same number of operations, the risk factor decreases. Numbers games.
 
Roddie from POA and I went flying yesterday evening. We went from Addison over to Mesquite, TX (KHQZ). I was AMAZED to see a NEW control tower being actively built. With sequester going on why would they be building a new federally funded and staffed control tower at a small airport that has been untowered for years?

I expect they will finish it and let it sit unless the city agrees to pick up the cost and staff it, but I doubt that will happen.

Crazy, crazy, world.

http://transportationblog.dallasnew...ficant-boost-for-mesquite-metro-airport.html/
 
Alexb2000 said:
Roddie from POA and I went flying yesterday evening. We went from Addison over to Mesquite, TX (KHQZ). I was AMAZED to see a NEW control tower being actively built. With sequester going on why would they be building a new federally funded and staffed control tower at a small airport that has been untowered for years?
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Why ? Because the tower closures are not about saving money.

Also, construction money is different from operations money. We just got a nice gold-plated firestation built by the ANG while the unit is for the most part operating UAVs somewhere overseas :rolleyes: .
 
Re: CT Control Tower Closure Info

CT Arrow said:
The airports in Connecticut that will be operating without ATC controllers are:


BDR Igor I. Sikorsky Memorial Bridgeport CT



DXR Danbury Municipal Danbury CT



GON Groton-New London Groton (New London) CT



HFD Hartford-Brainard Hartford CT



HVN Tweed-New Haven New Haven CT



OXC Waterbury-Oxford Oxford CT
​



KBDL (Bradley) will remain operational w/ controllers​
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I got picked up once at danbury DXR. I couldn't imagine that place without a tower. My friend got put in a hold over the lake for 5-10 minutes and there were probably 40 departures/arrivals that hour.
 
Just received word that TXDOT (Texas Dept. Of Transportation) is picking up 90% of the expense of 13 Texas control towers that had been slated for closure. The cities will cover the other 10%.

Don't know which 13, yet.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Just received word that TXDOT (Texas Dept. Of Transportation) is picking up 90% of the expense of 13 Texas control towers that had been slated for closure. The cities will cover the other 10%.

Don't know which 13, yet.
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TX will secede one day. They already have their own power grid.
 
weilke said:
TX will secede one day. They already have their own power grid.
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I'm thinking it's more likely that the rest of the country will collapse, leaving Texas as the last man standing, or perhaps the first among peers. But I'm not convinced they should be picking up the cost of control towers. Until we learn which 13 they are "saving", however, I'm reserving judgment.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I'm thinking it's more likely that the rest of the country will collapse, leaving Texas as the last man standing, or perhaps the first among peers. But I'm not convinced they should be picking up the cost of control towers. Until we learn which 13 they are "saving", however, I'm reserving judgment.
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I think it's only through mid-July.
 
We have to fly 72NM one way to get to a controlled field for my students....
 
weilke said:
TX will secede one day. They already have their own power grid.
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I hope Wyoming beats everyone to it....:yes:..

We have wind power to spare, and one of the largest low sulfur coal reserves, and a huge amount of natural gas, and oil, and we have Trona to mine, we also are the largest producer of Helium in the world, and real close to that fact in Uranium too....

Too bad we are not next to Texas.... We could fence off our borders and sell our assets to the higher bidder.... Bring gold please... Cash is worthless..:yes::eek: IMHO...;)
 
N801BH said:
I hope Wyoming beats everyone to it....:yes:..
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The only problem is you have to live in Wyoming.
Jackson is the only place I'd want to live, and it's as expensive as anywhere in the country.
 
Alexb2000 said:
At least 125,000 were willing to sign a petition. I suspect many more would vote in favor if given the chance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/u...nt-unbowed-by-white-house-rejection.html?_r=0
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OK, so if we assume that all 125,000 signers of the petition were Texans, then we know that at least one half of one percent of Texans support secession.

If these folks were serious about it, you would think they would commission a poll to find out how many Texans support it.
 
I live in Texas. I don't want to secede. I also don't think in a Country currently defined by labor perma-nomadism it matters one iota where one grew up versus where one currently resides, which is to say I'm as Texan as anybody else around here.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I live in Texas. I don't want to secede. I also don't think in a Country currently defined by labor perma-nomadism it matters one iota where one grew up versus where one currently resides, which is to say I'm as Texan as anybody else around here.
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Our State citizenships matters to some of us. I'm at least a fourth generation Texan.

Ryan
 
hindsight2020 said:
I live in Texas. I don't want to secede. I also don't think in a Country currently defined by labor perma-nomadism it matters one iota where one grew up versus where one currently resides, which is to say I'm as Texan as anybody else around here.
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But you don't understand....

Some people absolutely cannot stand the thought that they are the same as everyone else. Texan exceptionalism is just a tiny step beyond that.

Like the cabby I used the first time I went to Austin, who told me with a completely straight face that Texas was the only state that had previously been an independent country. I guess he's never heard of California or Hawaii. Even leaving aside all the independent countries all over North America before colonization.
 
You don't have to be from Texas to be passionate about it:

"You can all go to Hell, I'm going to Texas"

- Davy Crocket
 
MAKG1 said:
But you don't understand....

Some people absolutely cannot stand the thought that they are the same as everyone else. Texan exceptionalism is just a tiny step beyond that.

Like the cabby I used the first time I went to Austin, who told me with a completely straight face that Texas was the only state that had previously been an independent country. I guess he's never heard of California or Hawaii. Even leaving aside all the independent countries all over North America before colonization.
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Leaving the comparison of nations with native tribes aside, Texas IS exceptional. When Mary and I sought to relocate our family business to the sunbelt, Texas stood above and beyond all other states, in every significant way.

Freedom, liberty, taxes, business climate, school system (caveat: on our island, not necessarily everywhere in Texas), climate, recreation, aviation, airports, boating, fishing, gun laws -- you name it, Texas rocks it.

I've lived here three years, and can't imagine living anywhere else. I only wish we had moved here 30 years ago.
 
Palmpilot said:
OK, so if we assume that all 125,000 signers of the petition were Texans, then we know that at least one half of one percent of Texans support secession.

If these folks were serious about it, you would think they would commission a poll to find out how many Texans support it.
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Given what happened the last time around, secession is probably a moot point.

But Texans know that eventually D.C.'s fiscal house of cards will collapse. We will be ready.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Given what happened the last time around, secession is probably a moot point.

But Texans know that eventually D.C.'s fiscal house of cards will collapse. We will be ready.
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Ready to do what?
 
Palmpilot said:
Ready to do what?
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Ready if the rest of the country implodes. With U.S. debt increasing exponentially (+$4 million per minute, 24/7/365, and accelerating), it's a near certainty.

The only question is "when?".
 
Jay Honeck said:
Ready if the rest of the country implodes. With U.S. debt increasing exponentially (+$4 million per minute, 24/7/365, and accelerating), it's a near certainty.

The only question is "when?".
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Umm, Jay, the tinfoil hat is calling.

Even if there were an ounce of truth in that, there is no way Texas would get left out.

There have been predictions of immediate impending doom for at least thousands of years. It just never seems to happen....

Debt increases "exponentially" even when it's completely static. That's what compounding interest does. And exponential doesn't equal fast; it could be any speed. Usually, it means the model is incomplete and any conclusions drawn go out the window very quickly.
 
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