Control Tower Closure Info

Jay Honeck said:
I am truly astounded at how many GA pilots actually care if there's a control tower.

As a 19 year, all-for-fun-by-choice GA pilot, I look at towers as somewhere between mildly annoying and somewhat helpful -- but certainly not necessary in any way. If they all went away tomorrow, I doubt I would notice. If anything, I might fly into MORE big airports if I didn't have the hassle of dealing with ATC.
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I am truly astounded whenever I hear anyone remark about the "hassle" of "dealing" with ATC.

I would guess that anywhere it feels like a "hassle" (presumably because you're getting vectored in ways you'd prefer not to be), it's because there's enough traffic to warrant ATC to manage it.

I fly around / through Houston class B routinely, and find ATC to be a big help in avoiding sharing the same spot in the sky with other bits of moving metal. I'd sure miss 'em if they weren't there.

As for my earlier question re: whether any towers had closed yet, I'm planning a trip to unfamiliar environs this week and I simply wanted a straight answer on whether or not to expect the tower to be active.
 
azure said:
I'd much rather let them do it for me -- and in exchange for that and other services, the "hassle" of talking to them on the radio is small potatoes.
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FWIW, when they do it for you, there's no need to actually do anything. You've safely reached your clearance limit and the last controller concerned saw you do it.
 
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A sad day for many of us. The end of an era.
 
Jim_R said:
I am truly astounded whenever I hear anyone remark about the "hassle" of "dealing" with ATC.
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Some of us just prefer to manage ourselves. I have flown from the Rockies to the Atlantic, with exactly two ATC contacts. One at my home airport, one at the towered airport at my destination. I enjoyed that immensely.
Each 13 hour round trip to Oshkosh has exactly two ATC contacts, beginning and end.

Yes, there are places that must have a tower (Class Bravo, most Charlies), but there are lots of places that have towers that just don't need them. There is much more controlled airspace than is needed.
The LA basin, or the NY airport complex? Yes. Front Range Airport, or Branson, or Grand Junction, or Lee Bird Field? No.
 
GCA319 said:
It's a shame that you see them as a hassle instead of a resource...
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I use enroute ATC all the time. Flight Following just makes too much sense to NOT use it, and is generally non-obtrusive and helpful.

Air traffic control TOWERS are a whole 'another thing. Most of the airports I fly into that have them would be fine without them. Some of them are positively laughably unnecessary.

Face it, guys, taxpayers are paying up to $77/hour to these controllers, and retiring them at age 52. If there was ever an obvious place to cut, this is it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I use enroute ATC all the time. Flight Following just makes too much sense to NOT use it, and is generally non-obtrusive and helpful.

Air traffic control TOWERS are a whole 'another thing. Most of the airports I fly into that have them would be fine without them. Some of them are positively laughably unnecessary.

Face it, guys, taxpayers are paying up to $77/hour to these controllers, and retiring them at age 52. If there was ever an obvious place to cut, this is it.
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Not at the towers you're referring to.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I use enroute ATC all the time. Flight Following just makes too much sense to NOT use it, and is generally non-obtrusive and helpful.

Air traffic control TOWERS are a whole 'another thing. Most of the airports I fly into that have them would be fine without them. Some of them are positively laughably unnecessary.

Face it, guys, taxpayers are paying up to $77/hour to these controllers, and retiring them at age 52. If there was ever an obvious place to cut, this is it.
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We can take that logic a long ways no SZ intended. In my small Texas suburb we have 20 fire houses manned 24/7/365. No buildings over 3 stories and very, very, few real fires in the course of a year. Look at that on a national level. At least towered airports get some traffic everyday.
 
Especially for IFR operations I will miss the tower at Nashua. And personally I really enjoy talking to the controllers, I do not see it as a hassle at all. Nashua doesn't need a tower as much as some of the locations on the proposed closure list. Still, for what these facilities cost to operate (the contract towers are not that expensive to operate from a budget standpoint) I think the safety benefit - especially for IFR traffic - is a net positive.

I haven't seen any discussion about the fact that this also means fewer weather stations with human observers. I'm not sure what the impact of that will be.
 
I've had two instances in the past week where I'm glad the airport had a tower. The first one was at KJAC (Jackson, WY) where we were on the ILS behind a Gulfstream. They reported FOD on the runway. The tower got the ground truck to come pick it up in the time between the Gulfstream's landing and ours. I think we were about 10 miles in trail (the final at KJAC is pretty long). I know the tower was getting nervous as we were getting closer as they kept wanting us to report how far out we were. I thought we might have to miss but everything worked out fine.

The next day we were at KMOT (Minot, ND). The ASOS was reporting 1/4 mile in snow which is below minimums and we would not have been able to start the approach. However, I know they have RVR so I asked approach to get a reading from tower. It was 3000 which was good enough.
 
99.99% of the most dangerous events I've witnessed flying have been in or near the traffic patterns of an untowered field.
 
I seek to avoid the closure or Hartford-Brainard’s air traffic control tower, along with nearly 190 other control towers in the United States of America, which is currently scheduled for April 1, 2013. To accomplish this, I have created a petition on the website “We the People”, which is a feature of WhiteHouse.gov.

We the People was set up to allow anyone to petition the government, and if this petition gets 100,000 signatures by April 04, 2013, the it will be reviewed and responded to by the government! You can view and sign the petition here:

Click here. Or you may paste this link in your browser:

http://wh.gov/GCng
Please forward this information and the above link to anyone you think will be interested in assisting this effort. Thank you! Here is the text of the petition as it appears on We the People:

Prevent the closure of air traffic control towers in the U.S. as a
result of the Budget Control Act - Sequestration

Airport air traffic control towers provide services to pilots that are
essential to the safety, the efficiency, and the smooth operations of
flights. While not all airports have a control tower, airports with towers
are typically very busy and have a significant amount of air traffic.

At these airports, the air traffic controllers regulate when aircraft can
take off and land, and they contribute to aviation safety by helping to avoid
collisions. Controllers also provide numerous other services to pilots.

Closing air traffic control towers as a cost saving measure will be a
detriment to aviation in this country. The closures will reduce efficiency
and will adversely affect the safety of air travel.

See www.PremierFlightCT.com for additional details by the petitioner.



Again, you may Click here, or you may paste this link in your browser to add your name to the petition:

http://wh.gov/GCng
 
PilotAlan said:
Some of us just prefer to manage ourselves. I have flown from the Rockies to the Atlantic, with exactly two ATC contacts. One at my home airport, one at the towered airport at my destination. I enjoyed that immensely.
Each 13 hour round trip to Oshkosh has exactly two ATC contacts, beginning and end.

Yes, there are places that must have a tower (Class Bravo, most Charlies), but there are lots of places that have towers that just don't need them. There is much more controlled airspace than is needed.
The LA basin, or the NY airport complex? Yes. Front Range Airport, or Branson, or Grand Junction, or Lee Bird Field? No.
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My point is, at an airport that "doesn't need" its control tower, why's it a hassle? When I fly into towered fields when they're not busy, I usually make fewer radio calls that I do for non-towered fields. "Tower, me, inbound for landing." "You, cleared to land straight-in RWY 13". Hey, wow. Don't even have to fly the pattern or make any more position reports.

How could it be more hassle-free than that?
 
Jim_R said:
My point is, at an airport that "doesn't need" its control tower, why's it a hassle? When I fly into towered fields when they're not busy, I usually make fewer radio calls that I do for non-towered fields. "Tower, me, inbound for landing." "You, cleared to land straight-in RWY 13". Hey, wow. Don't even have to fly the pattern or make any more position reports.

How could it be more hassle-free than that?
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You've never done closed traffic at a tower where you have to keep reminding them for a landing clearance.
Or the third time they clear you for a T&G, with no one else in the pattern, after you've repeatedly asked for the option (so you have to call them back and ask for the option AGAIN).

Don't forget calling ground (N9050J holding short of Alpha at Alpha 7 with Whiskey for closed traffic), then having to readback the taxi instructions. Then landing, turn off, and pull past the line with the ramp 30 feet ahead, stop (N9050J clear of 26 at Alpha 7 for taxi to the ramp).

So yeah, having to make a couple position announcements would use less radio time than all the other stuff that has to be done.
With no one else in the pattern or on the radio.

Not a hassle, as just so... UNNECCESARY.
 
GCA319 said:
Same goes for the retirement age he mentioned. The contract tower at my field is like an aarp convention.
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And most are retired military and are double dipping the system.... I bet if you added up their combined pension benefits you would think differently...

That is unless you are taking that same route... Then you will claim they are (barely) getting by...;)
 
GCA319 said:
Same goes for the retirement age he mentioned. The contract tower at my field is like an aarp convention.
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Retirement age is rather meaningless at these facilities, as many of these controllers are already retired.
 
EppyGA said:
Since the other threads were closed due to apparent inability to keep the SZ arguments out of them, I thought I'd start another. I'm a glutton for punishment. :D

I'm based at KLZU and this morning was our monthly EAA Pancake Breakfast. The tower manager (contract tower) stopped by to let us know that the WARN notices will be handed out to his guys on Monday and the tower would be scheduled to close on April 4th.


I suspect the other towers on the list are on a similar schedule. If you've heard anything about your tower post it here.

Until the thread is closed that is. ;)
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Randy, it's been a while for me...

Is that cranky controller still working there? :lol:
 
rpadula said:
Randy, it's been a while for me...

Is that cranky controller still working there? :lol:
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Who was the cranky one? New manager about two months ago who's made some good changes. We can pick up FF while still on the ground. Just added a female voice recently.

We should go fly some day, tower or not. :D
 
PilotAlan said:
You've never done closed traffic at a tower where you have to keep reminding them for a landing clearance.
Or the third time they clear you for a T&G, with no one else in the pattern, after you've repeatedly asked for the option (so you have to call them back and ask for the option AGAIN). ...
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Hmm. Yeah, those examples never occurred to me. I've got more uncontrolled airports within a 15 min radius of me than I can shake a stick at, so if I wanted to do pattern work I'm not forced to use a towered field. Maybe not everyone is so fortunate.

That said, I've done plenty of pattern work at a nearby towered field when it wasn't too busy, and never had any of the problems you describe. Guess it's a case of YMMV.
 
Jps19602002@mac.com said:
I seek to avoid the closure or Hartford-Brainard’s air traffic control tower, along with nearly 190 other control towers in the United States of America, which is currently scheduled for April 1, 2013. To accomplish this, I have created a petition on the website “We the People”, which is a feature of WhiteHouse.gov.

We the People was set up to allow anyone to petition the government, and if this petition gets 100,000 signatures by April 04, 2013, the it will be reviewed and responded to by the government! You can view and sign the petition here:

Click here. Or you may paste this link in your browser:

http://wh.gov/GCng
Please forward this information and the above link to anyone you think will be interested in assisting this effort. Thank you! Here is the text of the petition as it appears on We the People:

Prevent the closure of air traffic control towers in the U.S. as a
result of the Budget Control Act - Sequestration

Airport air traffic control towers provide services to pilots that are
essential to the safety, the efficiency, and the smooth operations of
flights. While not all airports have a control tower, airports with towers
are typically very busy and have a significant amount of air traffic.

At these airports, the air traffic controllers regulate when aircraft can
take off and land, and they contribute to aviation safety by helping to avoid
collisions. Controllers also provide numerous other services to pilots.

Closing air traffic control towers as a cost saving measure will be a
detriment to aviation in this country. The closures will reduce efficiency
and will adversely affect the safety of air travel.

See www.PremierFlightCT.com for additional details by the petitioner.



Again, you may Click here, or you may paste this link in your browser to add your name to the petition:

http://wh.gov/GCng
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It was only a matter of time. I'm sure every, single service on the sequester hit list will soon have its own petition.

Which BHO will use in the coming weeks as "evidence" that we must restore the budget to it's full bloat.
 
Jay Honeck said:
It was only a matter of time. I'm sure every, single service on the sequester hit list will soon have its own petition.

Which BHO will use in the coming weeks as "evidence" that we must restore the budget to it's full bloat.
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We need a petition for a tower at KRAS!! That place is a zoo, especially when there's a fly-in scheduled. :)
 
PilotAlan said:
You've never done closed traffic at a tower where you have to keep reminding them for a landing clearance.
Or the third time they clear you for a T&G, with no one else in the pattern, after you've repeatedly asked for the option (so you have to call them back and ask for the option AGAIN).

Don't forget calling ground (N9050J holding short of Alpha at Alpha 7 with Whiskey for closed traffic), then having to readback the taxi instructions. Then landing, turn off, and pull past the line with the ramp 30 feet ahead, stop (N9050J clear of 26 at Alpha 7 for taxi to the ramp).

So yeah, having to make a couple position announcements would use less radio time than all the other stuff that has to be done.
With no one else in the pattern or on the radio.

Not a hassle, as just so... UNNECCESARY.
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not to mention messing around with phone calls and then light gun signals if you don't have a radio in the plane
 
DrMack said:
We need a petition for a tower at KRAS!! That place is a zoo, especially when there's a fly-in scheduled. :)
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Yeah, like the Chatty Cathy on the radio there three weeks ago who was flying right traffic for 12, wouldn't let us get a simple base-to-final call in edgewise, then told us to "step on it" since we had to back-taxi to exit the runway ... all so he could fail to make the turnoff himself. :rolleyes2:
 
Go to KCGZ and tell me honestly they don't need a tower. Scariest uncontrolled I've ever Been to.

I enjoy having an extra set of eyes on me. I enjoy being in contact with ATC and me being a tiny, slow blip on their scopes. It's another level of safety. There are flaws but that comes with the territory. Recently ATC gave me a little present, they informed me traffic that definitely wasn't a factor, but it was 2 f16's. they called them and I got to watch the, fly below and in front of me. How cool is that? Oh wait, ATC sucks!!
 
Z06_Mir said:
..... I enjoy being in contact with ATC and me being a tiny, slow blip on their scopes. It's another level of safety. !!
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Don't assume all towers have radar service.... Even if the radar site is rotating and 300 feet from the tower......:mad2::mad2::mad:.

Jackson Hole is pictured here..... The tower has NO radar screen in the cab...... They were told by the airport board and director that a display is not needed,,, Instead they send the radar signal 220 miles away to SLC center..:dunno::dunno::rolleyes:... Go Figure...:mad2:.
 

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N801BH said:
Don't assume all towers have radar service.... Even if the radar site is rotating and 300 feet from the tower......:mad2::mad2::mad:.

Jackson Hole is pictured here..... The tower has NO radar screen in the cab...... They were told by the airport board and director that a display is not needed,,, Instead they send the radar signal 220 miles away to SLC center..:dunno::dunno::rolleyes:... Go Figure...:mad2:.
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Helena MT, which is on the list doesn't have a radar. I've been into KGPI, another airport on the list, when they didn't have one (my first solo cross country)
 
Z06_Mir said:
I enjoy being in contact with ATC and me being a tiny, slow blip on their scopes.
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having lived in places were airplanes do fly by radio control, I have the opposite view. A couple weeks ago I came home from new mexico to central illinois and keyed the mike exactly once for the whole trip, announcing my takeoff roll from the origin airport.
 
JHW said:
having lived in places were airplanes do fly by radio control, I have the opposite view. A couple weeks ago I came home from new mexico to central illinois and keyed the mike exactly once for the whole trip, announcing my takeoff roll from the origin airport.
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I will always enjoy that sort of flying far more than flying into Houston.

Of course, I'd also rather sit in the back of my pickup truck drinking beer at the beach than go to a fancy party, so what do I know?
 
Jay Honeck said:
I will always enjoy that sort of flying far more than flying into Houston.

Of course, I'd also rather sit in the back of my pickup truck drinking beer at the beach than go to a fancy party, so what do I know?
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ditto on both counts. I do a lot of my flying between 13-17K. High enough to be out of indian country, low enough that I don't have to talk to anyone.
 
The ~8 airport TOWERS listed in WA State are all a phenomenal waste of tax money, let them all close.
 
I fly out of KLAL (Lakeland) home of Sun n Fun
The airport admin have had a letter from the FAA giving them notice of possible closure and stated that they have to write back by the 13th March giving reasons why the tower should remain open.
A decision will be made and notification sent back to the airport on the 18th March

Sun n Fun have said if the tower does close before the show they will pay for private controllers to be on duty, so safety will not be compromised during the fly-in.
 
soooo...silly question from a newly minted pilot:

Will the old tower frequency become the CTAF for the airport (much like when the tower is closed) or will the airport switch to a standard CTAF frequency (ie...132.375)?

PS: I also understand that the actual answer will be in the NOTAM when it gets issued.
 
numl0ck said:
soooo...silly question from a newly minted pilot:

Will the old tower frequency become the CTAF for the airport (much like when the tower is closed) or will the airport switch to a standard CTAF frequency (ie...132.375)?

PS: I also understand that the actual answer will be in the NOTAM when it gets issued.
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I would think so for safety. There is always someone that doesn't check NOTAMs.
 
numl0ck said:
soooo...silly question from a newly minted pilot:

Will the old tower frequency become the CTAF for the airport (much like when the tower is closed) or will the airport switch to a standard CTAF frequency (ie...132.375)?

PS: I also understand that the actual answer will be in the NOTAM when it gets issued.
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usually, but not always.
 
Heard on the news this morning KSPI will not be closing in April. I wonder if they will close it later?

I knew not every tower on the list would be closed. I wonder how many others will stay open?
 
1600vw said:
Heard on the news this morning KSPI will not be closing in April. I wonder if they will close it later?

I knew not every tower on the list would be closed. I wonder how many others will stay open?
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The administration is just waiting to achieve maximum political impact. If the GOP doesn't fold by April, watch for "emergency executive orders" to flow like water from the White House, with great flourishes of angst and concern, keeping the towers open.

And children. There will be children. After all, it's for them.
 
1600vw said:
Heard on the news this morning KSPI will not be closing in April. I wonder if they will close it later?

I knew not every tower on the list would be closed. I wonder how many others will stay open?
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It takes longer to close an FAA-staffed tower.
 
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