Complying with an AD via SB?

J

JC150

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
491
Display Name
Display name:
JC150
I'm looking through the logbook of an aircraft that I'm interested in purchasing. In the very front of the book is a section for AD's that can be found in the logbook if you keep flipping. For example, the very first AD in the AD section is related to the fuel system, and if i keep flipping I can find the logbook entry for that AD.

Here's my question:

Back in the 70's, there was a Service Bulletin issued, and a month later an AD was issued as a result of the service bulletin. There is a logbook entry for the SB. However, in the very front of the logbook in the "AD Compliance Section" is the AD number and it just says "previously complied with via SB(number)" Again, there's a logbook entry for the SB, but no actual signature for the AD.

The owner says the SB complies with the AD. Once the AD came out, the work had already been done and there was nothing to do so it counts. Can anyone confirm this? Or has this aircraft been flying around un-airworthy for the past 40 years?
 
Have you read the AD? What does it tell you to do? Is one of the avenues for compliance with the AD via complying with the SB?

You can’t pose a question this vague and expect to get a definite answer.
 
mondtster said:
Have you read the AD? What does it tell you to do? Is one of the avenues for compliance with the AD via complying with the SB?

You can’t pose a question this vague and expect to get a definite answer.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. Yes I read the AD. Nowhere does it say you may comply with the AD via the SB, it just says "Service Bulletin (number) pertains to this subject".
 
It says "Compliance required within the next 25 hours time in service after the effective date of this AD unless already accomplished."

Then at the very bottom it says "Service Bulletin (number) pertains to this subject".

So does that mean AD doesn't need a sign off? I always thought once an AD comes out, you need a mechanic to at least state "AD complied with via SB xxx" and sign and date it. Am i wrong?
 
Yes. Then in the "AD Compliance Section" of the logbook it has the AD number and says "previously complied with via SB(number)" but there's no signature or date or anything associated with that entry. I guess they want you to refer to the SB for that information but I would think the moment an AD is released you must have a sign off for the AD even if complied with via an SB?
 
Last edited:
If the SB was logged and signed off, it should be in compliance ,with the AD.
 
Even if it was done before the AD was released? Ok, interesting.. i learned something new
 
There needs to be an entry from an A&P with wording such as ," ad xxx complied with by s/b xxx see log book entry dated xxxx." There must be an entry stating the ad is complied with and reference to the action required by the ad. Just the S/b sign off is not enough, there has to be one for the ad even if the S/b is the only action required by the ad.

Bob
 
Thank you Bob. Thats what I had figured. So does that mean this aircraft has been un airworthy for the past 40 years then?
 
Bob, do you know where I can find a source to prove that an A&P must make such wording?

Checkout_my_Six said:
Not paper safe.....o_O
Click to expand...

When it comes to dealing with the FAA which I do on a regular basis, a legal paper trail is very important
 
Maybe you should be asking your PMI....and not an Internet Board. Just say’n. :)
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Maybe you should be asking your PMI....and not an Internet Board. Just say’n. :)
Click to expand...

I'm a pilot, not a mechanic. I didn't know what a principal maintenance inspector was until now. I'm just trying to use this to negotiate the price of this plane down, or maybe just walk away from it. I'd like to help the owner out nevertheless since he's a good guy. I just found another AD entry that says N/A by serial number but I just checked and it actually does apply. Again, it seems like this plane has been flying around un-airworthy for the past 40 years. The AD is for the exhaust muffler... and the exhaust muffler was replaced many times over the years... so the AD definitely doesn't apply anymore.. however you technically need a sign off... If I buy this plane, is there anything I can do so its not unairworthy?
 
JC150 said:
I'm a pilot, not a mechanic. I didn't know what a principal maintenance inspector was until now. I'm just trying to use this to negotiate the price of this plane down, or maybe just walk away from it. I'd like to help the owner out nevertheless since he's a good guy. I just found another AD entry that says N/A by serial number but I just checked and it actually does apply. Again, it seems like this plane has been flying around un-airworthy for the past 40 years. The thing is the AD is for the exhaust muffler and the exhaust muffler was replaced so the AD definetly doesn't apply anymore.. however you technically need a sign off... If I buy this plane, is there anything I can do to have that fixed?
Click to expand...

This, in my opinion, is not worthy of being a negotiation tool for pricing. Just have the owner get a mechanic to make a log entry stating the AD has been complied with as a condition of purchase.

By the way, if this is all you can find that is wrong in a logbook review on a light airplane you're doing good...
 
JC150 said:
Bob, do you know where I can find a source to prove that an A&P must make such wording?



When it comes to dealing with the FAA which I do on a regular basis, a legal paper trail is very important
Click to expand...

As with most things in the faa it's not one source. Far39 defines ads. THe ad itself will determine how it must be dealt with. Some ads allow a pilot to sign off the ad, the new piper fuel placard ad is one such ad. If the ad requires any inspection or maintenance, then the work and documentation falls under far 43.

If an ad is not done, the plane is unairworthy, however, all it takes to get it airworthy is to comply with the ad and document it. I've never bought a plane that I didn't find at least one thing that was questionable. Example, when I bought my twin Comanche, which had great logs, I found the sign off that the aileron rib ad had been complied with by installing the new nose ribs. But farther in the logs was an entry that the ailerons had Been replaced do to Hail damage and I could not find any documentation that the new ailerons had the mod done. So, it was not in compliance. So the ailerons had to go back under the 100 hr inspection required by the ad. So I inspected them, made the entry, and then it was in compliance.

Bob
 
JC150 said:
I always thought once an AD comes out, you need a mechanic to at least state "AD complied with via SB xxx" and sign and date it. Am i wrong?
Click to expand...
No. As stated above each applicable AD requires a sign off by AD number and revision. However, sometimes the FAA allows a pilot to sign it off.

JC150 said:
do you know where I can find a source to prove that an A&P must make such wording?
Click to expand...
91.417: (v) The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the next action is required.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top