Complaint of the Week

[SkyDog58]

My complaint? Too many threads that end up in pattern entry arguments.

 

[denverpilot]

Does that mean you don't lock your car or your house? I didn't ever lock my jeep which had windows you could unzipper from the outside but I usually lock the Forester except when it is in my garage.



Philosophically, I don't insist that a system be perfect before it is implemented, nor do I see things in black and white. I can see the reason for fences and gates but I am not disturbed by either their presence or absence.

I hit the button out of habit, but know it's pretty much a worthless endeavor. Three break ins proves it.

My point was not about philosophy. It as about cost and practically. If a fence and maintaining it costs X and it doesn't do the job someone said it would do, X was wasted. Why waste the money?

Just so some contractor can have a "good gub'mint contract" putting up airport fences that accomplish very little? That's what most of the TSA crap was about. "Ohh we got a grant to 'secure' the airport from terrorists! woooot!" LOL!

But like I mentioned, the fence at our airport is just marketing. Makes the sheep think they're safe.

Maybe that's the real reason for the waste. It's the equivalent of an adult pacifier. Someone else pointed out that there are dumb adults who'd cry and whine that someone has to "do something!" if something bad were to happen. Tons of those crybabies who can't think.

The illusion that airports are fortresses, must be maintained for them to feel good.

 

[Everskyward]

I hit the button out of habit, but know it's pretty much a worthless endeavor. Three break ins proves it.

I could just as easily say that no break-ins prove that locking your car works. No one can say how many times it would have been broken into if I left it unlocked all the time.

Although, my neighbor had his company truck stolen from in front of his house. He sheepishly admitted he had a habit of leaving the keys in the ignition.

My point was not about philosophy. It as about cost and practically. If a fence and maintaining it costs X and it doesn't do the job someone said it would do, X was wasted. Why waste the money?

I would guess the fence is doing its job for the most part. No one ever claimed it was impenetrable. I don't think that there are only two choices; nothing or total effectiveness. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

 

[denverpilot]

I could just as easily say that no break-ins prove that locking your car works. No one can say how many times it would have been broken into if I left it unlocked all the time.



Although, my neighbor had his company truck stolen from in front of his house. He sheepishly admitted he had a habit of leaving the keys in the ignition.



I would guess the fence is doing its job for the most part. No one ever claimed it was impenetrable. I don't think that there are only two choices; nothing or total effectiveness. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

That platitude is great if you can prove the overall effect of locking up airports was more "good" than not. You jumped to the platitude without proof of "good" by saying "we don't know"?

Your neighbor: Company get a new truck with their insurance check or were they self-insured? Any real long term harm come to them? Him? Did he get fired? Take the money lost from his paycheck? No consequences, other than inconvenience?

Oh no. He had to act sheepish for a couple of days. LOL. First world problems.

Let's think about it. Magically the fence around APA is gone tomorrow. What are the real world results? Hoardes of airplane looters lined up for miles? LOL.

Sheriff might have to come (literally) across the street a little more often and look around at night? And maybe *two* Ops people on staff 24/7 and someone always in the truck?

My God. The horrors.

 

[Everskyward]

That platitude is great if you can prove the overall effect of locking up airports was more "good" than not. You jumped to the platitude without proof of "good" by saying "we don't know"?

Your neighbor: Company get a new truck with their insurance check or were they self-insured? Any real long term harm come to them? Him? Did he get fired? Take the money lost from his paycheck? No consequences, other than inconvenience?

Oh no. He had to act sheepish for a couple of days. LOL. First world problems.

Let's think about it. Magically the fence around APA is gone tomorrow. What are the real world results? Hoardes of airplane looters lined up for miles? LOL.

Sheriff might have to come (literally) across the street a little more often and look around at night? And maybe *two* Ops people on staff 24/7 and someone always in the truck?

My God. The horrors.

Real world results is that you would have people walking unsupervised around running airplanes. Not that they don't do it now, but they would be there in greater numbers, oblivious, just like they walk around parking lots. And there would probably be more looters. I am fine with the fences but I understand that you are not.

As far as my neighbor goes, I told the story to illustrate that the more accessible you make something, the more likely someone will take advantage.

 

[denverpilot]

Real world results is that you would have people walking unsupervised around running airplanes. Not that they don't do it now, but they would be there in greater numbers, oblivious, just like they walk around parking lots. And there would probably be more looters. I am fine with the fences but I understand that you are not.



As far as my neighbor goes, I told the story to illustrate that the more accessible you make something, the more likely someone will take advantage.

So essentially, nothing that isn't already seen at other airports anyway?

I'm fine with the fence too, but not really impressed with paying every bureaucrat from the IRS down through DHS and local government to get one, when needed. (In our case, ours isn't like the new DHS funded ones. A better example would be GJT, where nobody wanted the thing but DHS kindly sent a couple of lackeys up from Denver for the "public comment" meeting of which, all public comment was summarily ignored. DHS wanted that place locked up and the meetings were just window dressing.)

I think you'd see vandals but few looters. Criminals know messing with aircraft is a trip to Club Fed not the nice cushy County pokey.

Most real aviation looters/thieves are aviation insiders. Mechanics, pilots, folks who know what avionics are worth. And where to dump them (or not dump them, since they're serialized and they'd get caught) on the black market.

 

[44Gort]

NIL

Internet Trolls.

Specifically POA thread Trolls.

Those that like to join a thread to create controversy and make themselves feel good at the expense of others.

Its generally mean spirited, patronizing and often insulting.

I know it an "Internet-thing" but you'd never see the same behavior face-to-face.

 

[Jaybird180]

I'm cool with nothing. It'd make the value of the hangar go up. LOL.

No seriously, tons of airports with nothing and they get by just fine. Many even have public viewing areas.

God forbid anyone know the Broncos flew some football player into Dove Valley... LOL.

One of the MD-3 airports has NOTHING except humorous signage as a deterrent. And guess what? It's working.

 

[mkosmo]

I want to complain that there are airplanes I can't afford. With the gubmint giving everybody else free things, I want them to give me a free SR-22T!

 

[White Bird]

I agree with the fence. There is plenty of value. It's called "CPTED" or CEPTED spoken. It stands for CRIME PREVENTION THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN and is an integral part of many security solutions. Here's the thing: the fence isn't keeping out anyone who really wants to get in. Nothing really will with the right amount of determination. It discourages them because not only is it more difficult to get in for what probably will be a low paycheck in the end, it makes it more difficult to get back out should they be confronted by someone like me and decide to flee. It also helps keep larger equipment on the field vs being driven off the field by the would be thief. It also communicates to the general public that it is not a free entry area and that they shouldn't be there if they don't have a valid reason. Do you really want someone who has no knowledge of airport operations, signs and markings, or aircraft, blindly driving onto the field in their car so that they can come around the side of a hangar and into the front of your airplane while you are taxiing? Its happened.

Again, I agree, that anyone who has a good reason to be there will know how to get in, be it a field freq used as the code or a lockbox with a key in it. If someone hasn't been taught that by someone or told how to do it when they asked the airport staff, then in MOST cases, they don't have a great reason to be on that part of the field.

Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well put together argument

 

[EdFred]

I know it an "Internet-thing" but you'd never see the same behavior face-to-face.

Come to a fly-in.