Commute by Plane (the long version)

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WesternSkyz

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WesternSkyz
I work in an industry where travel of up to 100% is common for 6-9 month contracts. It is customary to have all travel related expenses reimbursed and this easily tops $1500 a week (flights, hotel, meals, rental car). Whether the customer would spring for "airline equivalent" costs while I flew my own plane is uncertain, but for the sake of this thread let's assume they would and I would cover the additional cost out of pocket for the benefit of building time and avoiding commercial travel.

I have enjoyed following the thread of the Bay Area OP who is considering flying to work a few days a week. In my situation the schedule would include being onsite M-Th so a longer cross country trip each week.

1) A upcoming contract would have me traveling from Phoenix to Kansas City. Assuming no requirements for passengers, what class of plane fits this bill best? (~900nm but I wouldn't mind stopping to refueling)

2) I am also not a pilot yet but planning to begin my training this year. I'm assuming that I would need IR to make this a real possibility as if I were grounded, it's not like I can just drive instead. I also doubt I'd want to make the trip at 120 knots. So how many hours would be expected to make it to a IR in a HP aircraft and be comfortable with this kind of trip?
 
For me this sort of commute is a more compelling case for GA than the daily trip to work (although I'm not one of the people saying that is never feasible).

Aircraft to look at: Beech Bonanza, Mooney, RV-6/7/10, Long EZ/Cozy, Glasair, Lancair, Cirrus SR22, Cessna 206/210/400
Speed starts to get a lot more expensive beyond about 170 kts, so I'd aim for that.

100-150 hours of training + solo practice should be enough if they aren't dragged out over more than a year. You won't be an expert after that but you should be confident enough to make the trip.

There will be days when you can't make it even IFR. Be flexible and prepared to spend the night or take the airlines.
 
Agree with the above. Your situation is a good fit for GA commuting.

Another important factor is what else would you use the airplane for? How many seats you need, payload, range, speed, etc.

900nm is quite a trip, at that range Id want at least 180 knots. 3 miles a minute and you're looking at 5 hours of flying. One stop around halfway, both for fuel and 2.5-3 hours is about as far as most people are comfortable without a stop.

The RV-7/8 will get pretty close to that speed.
 
WesternSkyz said:
1) A upcoming contract would have me traveling from Phoenix to Kansas City. Assuming no requirements for passengers, what class of plane fits this bill best? (~900nm but I wouldn't mind stopping to refueling)
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Hate to say it, but US Airways, non-stop for $286 is hard to beat on that city pairing for a regular commute.

Podunk to podunk, slightly shorter distances and if the schedule has to be flexible is where GA shines. I do a similar commute (1050nm) and with few exceptions, I have done it on the airlines.

2) I am also not a pilot yet but planning to begin my training this year. I'm assuming that I would need IR to make this a real possibility as if I were grounded, it's not like I can just drive instead. I also doubt I'd want to make the trip at 120 knots. So how many hours would be expected to make it to a IR in a HP aircraft and be comfortable with this kind of trip?
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To do this on a schedule, you'll need at minimum a turbocharged HP single with 1000mile range (some 13000ft rocks on that route). A Mooney Bravo/Acclaim with long range tanks or a TN Bonanza with tip-tanks come to mind. A couple of experimentals could do it as well, but few of the ones capable to do that trip would be a great choice for a new pilot.


Learn to fly, enjoy flying around the southwest. Leave the commute to a chauffeur.
 
You need to develop an awful lot of experience in a short period of time to do this safely. Its possible, but you need really good training. Both modern and old school to learn the lessons needed to do this safely from the get go.

All the airplanes above are great - not mentioned is the Comanche B or C. 160kts TAS and you can find airplanes with 120 gallons which will let you do it nonstop BOTH ways. Thankfully, there is not much wind once you get into west Texas aloft much of the year. Lots of rocks and some restricted airspace - You will be stopping mostly in Dalhart Texas either way . . .

The route from PHX to DHT will be St. Johns, ABQ, around Sandia Peak to Otto, over LVS and then direct DHT. You can so that at 11000. There will be ice that high except in summer.

DHT-MKC is basically direct.
 
Those cities are too big and connected

Phoenix to kansas city, 1-person, best aircraft is a B737

Gallup to des moines, different picture, RV8 starts to look more compelling
 
Seanaldinho said:
Another important factor is what else would you use the airplane for? How many seats you need, payload, range, speed, etc.
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Ultimately I would like to have the experience and plane to be able to fly my family on personal holidays and vacations. We are a family of 5 right now and hoping to have one more.
 
WesternSkyz said:
Ultimately I would like to have the experience and plane to be able to fly my family on personal holidays and vacations. We are a family of 5 right now and hoping to have one more.
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Dont want to talk you out of anything, but that would really restrict your options on aircraft :)

6 seat aircraft dont really have 6 seats you can fill. If you have kids, you run out of luggage space, if they are adults, you run out of payload.
 
Sounds like what your mission calls for is a light twin like a Baron but that calls for more training time and experience.
 
Family of 5 already knocks out most of the planes suggested. Family of 6 narrows the field even more.
 
I really appreciate the comments an insight. Right now it's a dream but like many of you I tend to spend a lot of time researching my dreams.

What I've gathered so far:
To consider cross country commuting I would need ~100-125 hours to include HP and IR endorcements. One local flying club has a 172 and 182 that would work for this. Since all this flying would be on the weekends my guess is that this would take 1-1.5 years to accomplish.
At this point I'd need to purchase one of the planes that fits the commuting bill. I would log time a lot faster at this point if commuting every week. If it's a 206 or 210 for example then I could start using it for weekend trips with the family too as my kids are small right now.
It looked like most of the two seaters that were recommended for the commute were home builder / experimentals. Was the recommendation to purchase a used one? I wouldn't exclude building one myself but have not researched that at all.

Once the kids get big then we'd have to go to a twin. I can bank on them all getting full rides so I can justify a 340 right??


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Forget about everything written in the other 'commute' thread. What you want to do is much more complex. If you can take two weeks off, I am sure there is a school in the area where you can make good progress toward the certificate in that timeframe. Forget about the commute for a while. Find a cherokee6 or 206 and cut your teeth with regional travel, get your IR, gain 250 hrs. Upgrade to a Malibu ;-)
 
weilke said:
Forget about everything written in the other 'commute' thread. What you want to do is much more complex. If you can take two weeks off, I am sure there is a school in the area where you can make good progress toward the certificate in that timeframe. Forget about the commute for a while. Find a cherokee6 or 206 and cut your teeth with regional travel, get your IR, gain 250 hrs. Upgrade to a Malibu ;-)
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This is certainly a possibility with my job since I can tell my company I want some time between contracts. The key will be getting the wife on board. :)
 
WesternSkyz said:
This is certainly a possibility with my job since I can tell my company I want some time between contracts. The key will be getting the wife on board. :)
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Btw. many companies have a 'no private aircraft' policy. Easier if you are self employed and do IC work.

The way to get the wife on board is to:
- get some experience before you take her and the kids
- make it useful, do stuff she wants to do
- fly before the thermals
- short trips to start, nothing beyond bladder range
 
WesternSkyz said:
I work in an industry where travel of up to 100% is common for 6-9 month contracts. It is customary to have all travel related expenses reimbursed and this easily tops $1500 a week (flights, hotel, meals, rental car). Whether the customer would spring for "airline equivalent" costs while I flew my own plane is uncertain, but for the sake of this thread let's assume they would and I would cover the additional cost out of pocket for the benefit of building time and avoiding commercial travel.

I have enjoyed following the thread of the Bay Area OP who is considering flying to work a few days a week. In my situation the schedule would include being onsite M-Th so a longer cross country trip each week.

1) A upcoming contract would have me traveling from Phoenix to Kansas City. Assuming no requirements for passengers, what class of plane fits this bill best? (~900nm but I wouldn't mind stopping to refueling)

2) I am also not a pilot yet but planning to begin my training this year. I'm assuming that I would need IR to make this a real possibility as if I were grounded, it's not like I can just drive instead. I also doubt I'd want to make the trip at 120 knots. So how many hours would be expected to make it to a IR in a HP aircraft and be comfortable with this kind of trip?
Click to expand...

I prefer a twin for a traveling machine, my last was a Cessna 310, and it would fit this mission perfectly able to make it east bound non stop, and west bound, more likely than not will need 1 fuel stop (winds for the route are prevailing westerlies and 935nm is a good range number to use with a 130gallon 310) because you never push fuel, never. You always have time to stop for fuel.

My first plane was a turboed Beech Travel Air, that is another twin that with the turbos will meet your mission nicely and do it 30% more economically than a 310, but you have to fly high and on oxygen to make it pay in time.

If you are building time towards an airline dream, the more multi time you have, the higher in the stack of callbacks your resume is. With 1500hrs, 1400 of which are multi, you will be in the upper part of the stack no matter where in the hiring cycle the industry is at that time.

If you can afford to get in a Cirrus SR-22 with Known Ice certification and a turbo, that would be a good economical option for you that buys you the same level of safety options as a twin engine plane since it has an airframe parachute. The latest models have solved the only complaint I had with the Cirrus line by adding an aluminum fuel tank. These are very expensive planes to get into new though, over a half million dollars. You can probably get a lease on one to cover your level of usage that will probably work out to $350-$375 an hour.

There are other single engine planes I would consider if I limit my flights to daylight hours and only light instrument conditions. The primaries would be a turbo normalized Bonanza with tip tanks, and the big bore Mooney M-20s. I like to travel at three miles a minute, 180kts. Thing is, in order to do this economically from the maintenance perspective, I need a plane that will cruise 195kts and pull back the fuel flow to 180kts. This way I avoid the most expensive maintenance and save fuel money. 3 miles a minute gets you 900nm in 5 hours.

I did use a really fast single seat experimental as a commuter on a 28:14 work:off cycle for a while and found that winter weather is very limiting if you do not have deice gear. You will run into this same thing on your route. Most if not all the planes mentioned above are available with, or the capacity to retrofit deice gear. This adds expense.

The only way any of this makes sense is the time building value if you just are determined to have an airline job, and are willing to use the pay from this job to pay for that. If you bill airline equivalent at best fare, there is no coming close to covering your expenses. If you can seek Business Class equivalency though, if you are shrewd on purchasing fuel and willing to do the grunt work for your mechanic, you can come close. Figure a 310 or SR-22 is going to cost $300+ per hour if you fly conservatively and minimally participate in your maintenance (read you pay someone else to do most everything) The Travelair, Mooney, and Bonanza will cost $100 less, better if you slow to 160kts.
 
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Since a couple people mentioned it I'll just say I have no airline aspirations, I'm 36 and enjoy my field of work. Most of the thought process surrounds getting to where I can fly my whole family to see the in laws or on other weekend getaways. Only flying on weekends to progress through IR HP ME I doubt the family will put up with the amount of time away from them to get to where I can take them. I like the idea of a focused 2 week jump start to my training an time. Any other ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
WesternSkyz said:
It looked like most of the two seaters that were recommended for the commute were home builder / experimentals. Was the recommendation to purchase a used one? I wouldn't exclude building one myself but have not researched that at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yeah, I would buy one already built. Get a very thorough inspection, and it flies just like a certified plane. Building takes years for most people, and with your work schedule could take a decade to finish one. The advantage of the smaller planes is the economics. The RV-7/8 are both two seat 180mph airplanes, that burn around 10 gallons per hour, and in addition to that you have a lot more flexibility in upgrades and can save money on maintenance.

WesternSkyz said:
Since a couple people mentioned it I'll just say I have no airline aspirations, I'm 36 and enjoy my field of work. Most of the thought process surrounds getting to where I can fly my whole family to see the in laws or on other weekend getaways. Only flying on weekends to progress through IR HP ME I doubt the family will put up with the amount of time away from them to get to where I can take them. I like the idea of a focused 2 week jump start to my training an time. Any other ideas?


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A 2 week jump could practically finish your private if you really put your head down and are motivated to do it. Of course, this assumes good weather, you learn quickly, the written is done, airplane stays squawk free, instructor is willing to work with you, and you have the funds.
 
The man needs a family hauler for six and the recommendation is an RV.....

This place never fails.
 
WesternSkyz said:
Since a couple people mentioned it I'll just say I have no airline aspirations, I'm 36 and enjoy my field of work. Most of the thought process surrounds getting to where I can fly my whole family to see the in laws or on other weekend getaways. Only flying on weekends to progress through IR HP ME I doubt the family will put up with the amount of time away from them to get to where I can take them. I like the idea of a focused 2 week jump start to my training an time. Any other ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

How big is the family traveling with you? You may need a twin for weight, or a slow, high lift, high power, single. If you don't have pro flying aspirations, the concept of "time building" doesn't really apply to you. Time is only really relevant to working as a pilot. You can do every rating you need besides for that in 90 hrs. Outside of that, for a Business/Personal pilot, the only 'time' that matters is the first 100 hrs in each upgrade plane you buy. Once you have 100hrs in an airframe, your insurance rates will be near minimum regardless your total time. The only ratings you need are Private Pilot with Instrument Privileges. Getting your commercial certificate does add some avenues of 'legal operations' with regards to taking co workers on a business flight that are theoretically problematic on a Private Pilot certificate.
 
Side-tracking from the plane-choosing exercise (always fun -- can't wait to see your new G4 as voted on by the community ;) ) -- I wanted to speak to the delicacy of getting a contract employer to pay for GA travel.

I've succeeded a few times, and I've failed countless times. Here is what I've had the worst luck with:

"I want to fly my little plane to your job site and have you pay for it" :D

"I want to fly my little plane and have you calculate the equivelant it would have cost on the airlines and just hand me that amount in a check"

Here's what has worked:

"I will manage my own travel, you will reimburse me IRS approved mileage of $0.xx/mi and a per diem of $xxx"

For one, where the above didn't work, I did it with a (less than honest) twist:

"I am afraid of flying, so I will drive myself, and you will reimburse me IRS mileage and a per diem"


Basically, if you can keep the workload on them equal to or less than a call to a travel agent, you might get away with it. If they have to fuss with calculating equivelancies, or otherwise think hard to get you your way, they're going to say no -- and "scary GA" is the quickest path to getting that workload shut down.

I've had many outright refuse me, as it was their way or the highway.

Good luck, it's best negotiated early in that hiring honeymoon phase. :)

$0.02

- Mike
 
The way I have always sold it was "I will have you up 24hrs faster and I'll be off the clock 36hrs faster if I use my plane, you pay my costs till I get home." Typically if I can get them fixed before they start losing revenue, they jump at it. There is also a supply market I could nicely fill with an LA-4-200, but that would be on a 135 cert.
 
Would the OP need to worry about having a commercial since he would be getting reimbursed? Or does this fall in one of the many 'gray areas'?
 
weilke said:
The way to get the wife on board is to:
- get some experience before you take her and the kids
- make it useful, do stuff she wants to do
- fly before the thermals
- short trips to start, nothing beyond bladder range
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is very helpful advice!
 
Henning said:
You can probably get a lease on one to cover your level of usage that will probably work out to $350-$375 an hour.



Figure a 310 or SR-22 is going to cost $300+ per hour if you fly conservatively and minimally participate in your maintenance (read you pay someone else to do most everything) The Travelair, Mooney, and Bonanza will cost $100 less, better if you slow to 160kts.
Click to expand...



A lease from a private owner or a aircraft dealer? Interesting thought, just not familiar with how that would work in GA.



SWAGing 10 hours of flight time per 40-50 hour work week I might be able to swing $200 / HR of total flying cost and try to recapture as much as I can through the expense discussion below. Another option is to just ask for a $30 / HR higher "blended" rate and not get reimbursed for my travel expenses. (Assuming $2000 per week of expenses this comes out to $50 / HR anyway...)



Henning said:
How big is the family traveling with you? You may need a twin for weight, or a slow, high lift, high power, single. If you don't have pro flying aspirations, the concept of "time building" doesn't really apply to you. Time is only really relevant to working as a pilot. You can do every rating you need besides for that in 90 hrs. Outside of that, for a Business/Personal pilot, the only 'time' that matters is the first 100 hrs in each upgrade plane you buy. Once you have 100hrs in an airframe, your insurance rates will be near minimum regardless your total time. The only ratings you need are Private Pilot with Instrument Privileges. Getting your commercial certificate does add some avenues of 'legal operations' with regards to taking co workers on a business flight that are theoretically problematic on a Private Pilot certificate.
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My oldest just turned 4 so we have some years before they start pushing too hard on the seats or requiring lots of baggage.



Your comment about 100 hours in type for insurance is really helpful. I have added a second layer to the discussion by including that I want to fly with my family in the future. It is clearly a different mission and I understand that the aircraft recommendation would be different.



schmookeeg said:
Here's what has worked:



"I will manage my own travel, you will reimburse me IRS approved mileage of $0.xx/mi and a per diem of $xxx"



For one, where the above didn't work, I did it with a (less than honest) twist:



"I am afraid of flying, so I will drive myself, and you will reimburse me IRS mileage and a per diem"





Basically, if you can keep the workload on them equal to or less than a call to a travel agent, you might get away with it. If they have to fuss with calculating equivelancies, or otherwise think hard to get you your way, they're going to say no -- and "scary GA" is the quickest path to getting that workload shut down.



I've had many outright refuse me, as it was their way or the highway.



Good luck, it's best negotiated early in that hiring honeymoon phase. :)



$0.02



- Mike
Click to expand...



It's pretty rare to get a contract I can drive to, so the IRS rate for mileage might be way out of left field for them. I manage booking and paying upfront for all my own travel, hotel and rental cars and then submit them on expense forms to the customer, neither the customer or my company have travel departments.



I am a W-2 Hourly employee of the company but who I am contracted out to will change every 6-9 months. It's not easy to be an IC in this industry for various reasons.
 
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farmerbrake said:
Would the OP need to worry about having a commercial since he would be getting reimbursed? Or does this fall in one of the many 'gray areas'?
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As currently interpreted, there are some problems taking coworkers with you and getting reimbursed for the use of your plane.
 
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1969/Cessna/T310P/1733580.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1970/Cessna/T310Q/1775830.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1980/Cessna/T310R/1517744.html

How do I determine useful payload on these?
I'm suprised at the selling prices but not naive about the operating costs.
So a T310, $300 / HR all said? or can it be lower if I don't push the cruise speed and what would be the trade off?

BTW, in laws are near Fresno and I'm nearly drooling at the possibility of putting the family in a 310 and being there in 3 hours? I've done the 11 hr drive (1 fuel and usually 2 food / potty stops) more times than I'd like to remember.
 
WesternSkyz said:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1969/Cessna/T310P/1733580.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1970/Cessna/T310Q/1775830.html

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1980/Cessna/T310R/1517744.html

How do I determine useful payload on these?
I'm suprised at the selling prices but not naive about the operating costs.
So a T310, $300 / HR all said? or can it be lower if I don't push the cruise speed and what would be the trade off?

BTW, in laws are near Fresno and I'm nearly drooling at the possibility of putting the family in a 310 and being there in 3 hours? I've done the 11 hr drive (1 fuel and usually 2 food / potty stops) more times than I'd like to remember.
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Which T-310? The T-310-R is bigger with with more expensive and more fragile engines, call it $350 if you start with a good copy of one and keep it good. Figure turbos in general are going to add $2-$5hr. The main caution with turbos is the ability to produce power at altitude where it is harder to get rid of heat. You may be power limited by CHT.
 
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WesternSkyz said:
I am a W-2 Hourly employee of the company but who I am contracted out to will change every 6-9 months. It's not easy to be an IC in this industry for various reasons.
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Before you get too far ahead of yourself, check your corporate travel policy. If you are on company business and they pay, they bear the liability for your actions. Many companies dont have insurance coverage for that risk and forbid travel by private aircraft.
 
Acquisition costs of 310's seem attractive but there is a reason a 58 baron commands a premium. It'll cost you less over the long term. And the loading/unloading can't be beat.
 
JHW said:
Acquisition costs of 310's seem attractive but there is a reason a 58 baron commands a premium. It'll cost you less over the long term. And the loading/unloading can't be beat.
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58 Baron has that same front alternator as the 310R doesn't it? I don't think the difference between a 58 Baron and a 310 is going to be enough to be a deciding factor. The back doors are nice, but passengers seem to prefer commuter seating to club seating. It's pretty much six of one, half a dozen, pick which you like better, choice between the two.
 
Nope. 310's will need more tinkering to keep going over the years. The market is very efficient at assigning value.
 
JHW said:
Nope. 310's will need more tinkering to keep going over the years. The market is very efficient at assigning value.
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Fine, it'll be a rounding error in the overall cycle costs of ownership. If he steps into a cabin class Cessna from there, he gets the difference back for the 310 in the first year's insurance difference.

The Baron has its positive points on the 310 for sure, I just don't think cost differential is a significant point, especially not when comparing to an IO-470 310.
 
I've been looking into the TN A36 and if i'm reading this right it's pretty impressive.

180 kt @ 14.6 gph FL125 does the trip from PHX to MKC in just over 5 hours on ~80 gals of fuel. Bird has 6 seats with 1600 useful load and would make my most common family trip from PHX to FAT seem like getting take out.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1782437.html

It is a dream... and now I want to make it a reality!
 
WesternSkyz said:
I've been looking into the TN A36 and if i'm reading this right it's pretty impressive.

180 kt @ 14.6 gph FL125 does the trip from PHX to MKC in just over 5 hours on ~80 gals of fuel. Bird has 6 seats with 1600 useful load and would make my most common family trip from PHX to FAT seem like getting take out.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1782437.html

It is a dream... and now I want to make it a reality!
Click to expand...

Fine choice of plane for a wide variety of missions, including rough fields. With the Osbourne tip tanks, it makes a reasonable Trans Atlantic platform.
 
WesternSkyz said:
I've been looking into the TN A36 and if i'm reading this right it's pretty impressive.

180 kt @ 14.6 gph FL125 does the trip from PHX to MKC in just over 5 hours on ~80 gals of fuel. Bird has 6 seats with 1600 useful load and would make my most common family trip from PHX to FAT seem like getting take out.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/1782437.html

It is a dream... and now I want to make it a reality!
Click to expand...

Sometimes I just have to quote myself:

weilke said:
To do this on a schedule, you'll need at minimum a turbocharged HP single with 1000mile range (some 13000ft rocks on that route). A Mooney Bravo/Acclaim with long range tanks or a TN Bonanza with tip-tanks come to mind.
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I know it says 1642lbs useful and Eric is really proud of that fact, but you have to know how they arrive at that number. It is the result of combining STCs that each allow a bump in max takeoff weight. Some of these increases are the result of quirks in certification rules, not any magic that increases the planes capability to lift the increased weight. The factory mtow is 3600lb, at 4000lb you are more than 10% above that. You still have only 300hp to lift that weight, not the 500-600 of a twin. If you want to use that higher takeoff weight, you have to adhere to new limitations in takeoff performance (increased takeoff roll, limited climb performance).

If you lose track of those limitations, you may end up like this:

http://youtu.be/wVJJzyXQNAg

They had loaded up to and just beyond the increased MTOW including essential items like a weekends worth of groceries and an ice-maker for their second home. Unfortunately, one of the pax didn't make it.


So yes, the A36TN/TC IS as great as it seems, but it requires some skill and experience to use it to its full potential. It would be a shame to hear that you loaded it up with your entire family and flew it into the side of a mountain.
 
This is a fact, the big limitation you run into at high weights with 300hp is climb performance.
 
weilke said:
So yes, the A36TN/TC IS as great as it seems, but it requires some skill and experience to use it to its full potential. It would be a shame to hear that you loaded it up with your entire family and flew it into the side of a mountain.
Click to expand...


Though I didn't take the time to quote it, the idea to look at the TN A36 came from a couple posts in this thread. Admittedly I am writing from a place of relative ignorance and I appreciate everyone's guidance and advice.

My 3 kids weigh a combined 125 lbs soaking wet. My wife and I together are 350 lbs and I'm nearly 2/3 of that. So is a twin in our future when my boys are 175+ each? I think I get that picture. What I'm trying to say / ask is it looks like I may have found a plane that could support my dual mission for the next 5+ years, so what do you think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
WesternSkyz said:
My 3 kids weigh a combined 125 lbs soaking wet. My wife and I together are 350 lbs and I'm nearly 2/3 of that. So is a twin in our future when my boys are 175+ each? I think I get that picture. What I'm trying to say / ask is it looks like I may have found a plane that could support my dual mission for the next 5+ years, so what do you think?
Click to expand...

I think that is a good way of looking at it.

The reality is that once your kids start pushing 175lbs they will do anything NOT to hang out with you :)

Whenever it comes to the 'how much plane do I need' question, people forget that UPS ground is much cheaper than buying a bigger plane just to have payload for the luggage.

Apples to apples (same range, same mission) payload on light twins is not that much greater than the A36TN as you need to carry more fuel. Until you get into the likes of a Piper Navajo or Queen Air, you are still pretty limited on payload.

The nice thing with the A36 is that you can step up into one right out of getting your private ticket. You will need 25+ hrs dual in the plane to satisfy insurance requirements, you should use some of that to move on right into your instrument rating. Insurance for the first year is going to be pretty painful (but not as painful as buying the wrong plane, paying sales tax, pre-buy, purchase travel etc. and then doing it all over again 2 years later).
 
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