Commercial rating questions.

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Trcpilot

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Cjayfly1
I wanted to reach out for clarification.

Night flying
61.129(a)(3)(iii) and 61.129(a)(4)(ii)

I’ve completed the 2 hour night xc flight requirement and I wanted to find out if the 2hours of night flying eat away some of the
5 hours of VFR night duties -PIC?

“My night flight was 2.3 hours of night flight. Do I only need 2.7 hours of night to complete this requirement 5 hour night vfr pic?”

If this is the case, how do I log it in my logbook?

300nm commercial requirement
61.129(a)(4)(i)

Is this a solo flight or can you have an instructor onboard? If so, do I log pic and dual or just pic?


Thanks in advance for the assistance!
 
I had the same question regarding the 300nm flight. A checklist I found notated it as a 300nm SOLO flight, and I don't see that in 61.129(a)(4)(i), nor can I find anything that definitively states that it is a solo flight. I have a solo trip to MI from PA planned for this summer, and then a trip with my wife and a CAP check pilot to Oshkosh for Airventure, so either way, I should be good to go, but I want to know too.

As far as the night time, here's my understanding. You need 5 hours of night time, so your night XC can count. However, the 10 takeoffs and landings that you need have to be in the traffic pattern per 61.129(a)(4)(ii).
 
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flyingpreacher said:
I had the same question regarding the 300nm flight. A checklist I found notated it as a 300nm SOLO flight, and I don't see that in 61.129(a)(4)(i), nor can I find anything that definitively states that it is a solo flight.
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The heading of 61.129(a)(4) clearly states "solo". I'm not sure how the regulation could be more direct.
 
Trcpilot said:
I wanted to reach out for clarification.

Night flying
61.129(a)(3)(iii) and 61.129(a)(4)(ii)

I’ve completed the 2 hour night xc flight requirement and I wanted to find out if the 2hours of night flying eat away some of the
5 hours of VFR night duties -PIC?

“My night flight was 2.3 hours of night flight. Do I only need 2.7 hours of night to complete this requirement 5 hour night vfr pic?”

If this is the case, how do I log it in my logbook?
Click to expand...

The 61.129(a)(3) requirements are training requirements. The 61.129(a)(4) requirements are solo. The training requirements don't count for the solo requirements.
 
mondtster said:
The heading of 61.129(a)(4) clearly states "solo". I'm not sure how the regulation could be more direct.
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As @Trcpilot pointed out, in the heading section you noted, it states, " Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under § 61.127(b)(1) that include..."
 
flyingpreacher said:
As @Trcpilot pointed out, in the heading section you noted, it states, " Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under § 61.127(b)(1) that include..."
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What they're referring to is "supervised solo" to meet insurance requirements. It is not training.
 
mondtster said:
What they're referring to is "supervised solo" to meet insurance requirements. It is not training.
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So my buddy is a CFII. If he's on board, I'm not solo, but I am performing the duties of PIC. If I'm already instrument rated, and we are just doing a long XC, it's unlikely that he's doing any instructing. I don't disagree with your assessment of "supervised solo" nor am I insinuating that it would be training, but in that case, it does eliminate the "solo" aspect, right? If I'm not the sole occupant of the aircraft, I can't log solo, but I can still fulfill the requirements of the FAR? I'm seriously not trying to argue, I promise. It just doesn't seem to be 100% cut and dried that it's a solo flight, unless I'm missing something. I'm a low time pilot (100+), so I'm not at all acting like I know something I don't.
 
flyingpreacher said:
So my buddy is a CFII. If he's on board, I'm not solo, but I am performing the duties of PIC. If I'm already instrument rated, and we are just doing a long XC, it's unlikely that he's doing any instructing. I don't disagree with your assessment of "supervised solo" nor am I insinuating that it would be training, but in that case, it does eliminate the "solo" aspect, right? If I'm not the sole occupant of the aircraft, I can't log solo, but I can still fulfill the requirements of the FAR? I'm seriously not trying to argue, I promise. It just doesn't seem to be 100% cut and dried that it's a solo flight, unless I'm missing something. I'm a low time pilot (100+), so I'm not at all acting like I know something I don't.
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The only reason there is an allowance for "supervised solo" is to satisfy insurance requirements for aircraft such as multiengine airplanes where insurance is next to impossible to get for student solo flight. If the supervised solo route is required it is expected that the instructor is supposed to sit there and provide no help, just satisfy insurance requirements. Additionally, the supervised solo route is an all or nothing approach - it either must all be supervised or none supervised, because if some is unsupervised then it all could have been. The examiners know what the rules on this stuff are and they look for it. I've had numerous discussions with one of the local guys about this exact topic.

I wish there was less desire to manipulate the rules into something that they're not.
 
That explanation of the multi insurance makes sense. I was trying to figure out why an instructor would be in the plane for "supervised solo" especially since I've never encountered that term before. Thank you for explaining. I totally get it now. (Sorry, I'm a little slow at 12:30am...)
 
Thank you all for the responses. And just for clarification, I can add the 2.3 of night flying into the 5 hours of night vfr?
 
Trcpilot said:
Thank you all for the responses. And just for clarification, I can add the 2.3 of night flying into the 5 hours of night vfr?
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The 2-hour night cross-country is a dual training flight and the 5 hours at night is a solo requirement. What do you think the answer is?
 
Trcpilot said:
If you read 61.129 (4) it’s not strictly solo.

“Ten hours of solo flight time in an single engine airplane or 10 HOURS OF FLIGHT TIME PERFORMING THE DUTIES OF PILOT IN COMMAND IN A SINGLE ENGINE AIRPLANE WITH AN AUTHORIZED INSTRUCTOR ON BOARD …..”

So instead of being a child, it will be very helpful to assist with the question being asked! Again, this is a forum for information, clarification and understanding.
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The meaning of that clause was explained in Post 8. If you aren't in a situation where you aren't permitted to solo the aircraft, it is easier to understand if you pretend it's not there.

I will repeat what I said before. One is a dual training requirement, the other is a solo requirement. No, you can't combine them. The fact that the regulation allows a way around solo being actually solo doesn't change that.
 
dmspilot said:
The meaning of that clause was explained in Post 8. If you aren't in a situation where you aren't permitted to solo the aircraft, it is easier to understand if you pretend it's not there.

I will repeat what I said before. One is a training requirement, the other is a solo requirement. No, you can't combine them. The fact that the regulation allows a way around solo being actually solo doesn't change that.
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Thank you for that. What about the night vfr? I completed 2.3 hours so far this week with my 100nm 2 hour flight, so I only need 2.7 more hours for the night requirement? Just want to make sure I’m not breaking any rules and logging the time appropriately. I’m a new private pilot and just crossed 100 hours. Again, I wanted to thank everyone for all of the helpful information.
 
Trcpilot said:
Thank you for that. What about the night vfr? I completed 2.3 hours so far this week with my 100nm 2 hour flight, so I only need 2.7 more hours for the night requirement? Just want to make sure I’m not breaking any rules and logging the time appropriately. I’m a new private pilot and just crossed 100 hours. Again, I wanted to thank everyone for all of the helpful information.
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No matter which way you word it the answer is the same. Items that count toward 61.129 (a)(3) cannot count toward 61.129 (a)(4) items because you were not solo.
 
Deadbeat said:
Seriously what makes you think you know everything? Are you a chest thumping CFI perhaps?
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Asking someone to exercise their critical thinking skills makes me a chest thumper? I'm not the one bragging about golden seals or how many hours I have but I guess if I did that would give me the right to call other people names?
 
Deadbeat said:
depends how the examiner interprets. some of them won’t even catch it, just make sure you’ve got your bases covered if you’re going to try and slide by. my advice? do ‘em separate, the boy is right, one is solo the other is dual received.

bob
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Thank you
 
I'm reading the thread and getting confused. There are three different cross country requirements for the commercial certificate with an airplane single engine rating.
  1. a day dual cross country. 61.129(a)(3)(iii)
  2. A night dual cross country. 61.129(a)(3)(iv)
  3. A solo cross country. 61.129(a)(4)(i). The FAA permits this to be done with a CFI on board, originally due to insurance limitations in solo flight in multiengine airplanes. But it is not considered a "dual" flight.
Thinking in terms of "combining" them is a potential rabbit hole. They cannot be "combined" in the sense of meeting the requirements of one being used to meet the requirements of another. At best, they can be done sequentially, but they are separate.

Apart from that, there is the night solo takeoff and landing requirement in 61.129(a)(4)(ii). That can be combined with #3 but not with the others,
 
Also as Mark already knows: You can do ALL of your solo work with an instructor monitoring but not instructing or ALL of your solo work well, solo. But you can’t combine both (do some of these flights solo and others with an instructor).
 
Trogdor said:
Also as Mark already knows: You can do ALL of your solo work with an instructor monitoring but not instructing or ALL of your solo work well, solo. But you can’t combine both (do some of these flights solo and others with an instructor).
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Which makes ZERO sense to me.
 
The CFI dummy provision was in answer to the fact that some places won't rent (primarily twins) for solo use. If you can go solo for any of it, they assume you don't need the exception.
 
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