Commercial Pilot Career?

TCABM said:
I agree although I expect the furlough lists to be long and distinguished.
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I recall recently reading something from the Wall Street Journal that estimates between 19 and 30 percent of business travel will be permanently lost. Businesses have found much of it was unnecessary and wasteful, and can be replaced with remote access. There's no doubt that travel will return once the pandemic is tamed, but it could be quite a while before pilot employment levels reach what they were.
 
FormerHangie said:
I recall recently reading something from the Wall Street Journal that estimates between 19 and 30 percent of business travel will be permanently lost. Businesses have found much of it was unnecessary and wasteful, and can be replaced with remote access. There's no doubt that travel will return once the pandemic is tamed, but it could be quite a while before pilot employment levels reach what they were.
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Yep. I’m at a F100 company and our travel budgets were significantly reduced last year, which carried over and is probably here to stay for the next few years. Tech investments to send 98% of 35K employees to WFH have to be repaid somehow, especially considering we won’t be leading the pack for return to office.
 
texasclouds said:
Get a new boyfriend that is already captain.
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Krs17 said:
Hello everyone,

My boyfriend is currently considering pursuing a career as a commercial pilot. He's very serious about it and wants to get started ASAP. We've had conversations with admin at the local flight school and they want him to do an associates degree along with the flight training so that he can apply for a student loan to fund the whole thing. In total it would be ~ $80,000 in loans.

This number makes me nervous as I would need to co-sign for him to qualify. I have a stable job with no outstanding debt. However, I don't want to spend my life in debt and worry that this would hurt our/my chances for car or housing loan in the future (I'm 27 yrs old he's 26).

He's incredible hardworking and passionate about the industry, but I need to hear some real perspectives on the industry and job outlook before I commit to this as well.

Thanks in advance! :)
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Never ever cosign a loan for anyone!!!

When you break up, you are screwed.

If he wants this so badly let him work 2 or 3 jobs and save up the measly 80k, then pay for it in cash. He must have a terrible credit rating as well, and needs to stand on his own two feet. Too many people think oh gee i love him or her, cosign a loan, then its quickly over, and their life goes to hell. Tell him to be a man, and do it himself. Get another job, and work for it, in 2 years he has the cash, then he can go play in flight school. And this is the dumbest thing ever to get a loan for, it has no value. If the 80k was for a plane, at least you could sell it and get some money back.
Ps. I lent an ex gf $2k and heard all the promises of how she would pay me back. Never seen a dime of it, and that was 13 or 14 years ago.

Ps. Boat loads of unemployed pilots to, and they have hours and experience, he will have nothing but a license worth 2 cents for the paper they printed it on. Under a couple thousand hours, good luck. Tell him to fold his money in half, put it back in his pocket, and get a real job. I love flying, but I do it for fun, and to get places, not silly enough to try and make it my career. For $80k he can open a small business, make it grow, and in 10 years be pocketing a million dollars annually.
 
Also, in 10 or 15 years from now, when you are happily married to someone else, who has a real job, and isn't asking you to cosign his BS. Call me up and thank me for the great advice!
 
YKA said:
Also, in 10 or 15 years from now, when you are happily married to someone else, who has a real job, and isn't asking you to cosign his BS. Call me up and thank me for the great advice!
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I totally agree with you until you said “has a real job”. An airline pilot is a pretty darn good job. Better than most imo.
 
Kritchlow said:
I totally agree with you until you said “has a real job”. An airline pilot is a pretty darn good job. Better than most imo.
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Agreed...but he isn't one. He must have a crappy job now if he can't do this himself. If he was flying for an airline already and working 5 days a week, then I wouldn't have said when he gets a real job. He should be working a couple of jobs now, and banking 60% or more of his pay IMO. I sure didn't ask my GF to cosign a loan so I could go flying when I was getting my license. Instead I worked hard, pulled extra shifts, and had a good paying job as a truck driver.
 
Lots of good advice in all these posts. And, it would seem, the majority theme is, do NOT do the loan.
That would be my vote, too, and has nothing to do with you and your boyfriend's personal situation. Signing on to a huge student debt for aviation training is simply a terrible idea. Unlike a student loan for other college degrees, where you have a pretty good chance of landing a reasonable job with at least a moderate salary right after graduation (well, maybe not for the Art History majors), aviation is completely fickle, always volatile, and far from a sure thing as far as job placement goes. And, aside from roller-coaster market forces, (someone else may have mentioned, but I missed it), there's the medical factor. As a pro pilot, you're always just one medical issue away from losing your career, not a good position to be in with a huge loan to pay off.
So, for your boyfriend, consider the other avenues to flight training, different schools, 4-year college program, 141, 61, whatever may work best, but stick with the pay-as-you-go method for whatever school he might choose, but DO NOT chain yourself, or him, to years of debt.
 
I quite agree with Jim's post, above.

It's not that romance is dead on this board--I wish you and your boyfriend a long and happy future together.

But he needs to find a way to do this without going into debt, which would relieve you of the significant risk of co-signing.
 
co-signing a loan like this is one of the best ways I can think of to set up the very ugly demise of said relationship. Very few relationships, even great ones, would be able to ride out the inevitable coming storms.
 
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kgruber said:
And................pilots have a MUCH higher divorce rate than the general population.
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Source? I thought that was proven to be an old wives' tale.
 
kayoh190 said:
Source? I thought that was proven to be an old wives' tale.
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Old ex-wives' tale perhaps?

My non-scientific observation is that most are. I think somewhere around 10 divorced (at least once) and 2 with first wife. I hope your mileage varies.
 
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Ravioli said:
I hope your mileage varies.
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Fortunately it does - I had a large number of professional pilots at my wedding and only 2 were on a second marriage. Of course I've flown with plenty of guys have been divorced over the years, but isn't the national average over 50% anyway? That's why I'm not sure it's *significantly* higher than the general population. It might be, but I don't think I've seen any actual statistics.
 
Absolutely not, do not co sign for this. Way too much risk involved in this. What I decided to do with my life at 26 is not what I’m doing today and I’m sure I’m not the only one. If it’s his passion he needs to find a way to make it happen on his own because relationships come and go and it will hinder you for future purchases. Even if he follows through with his plan and makes payments you still have the debt load effectively working against you when buying a house,car etc...it will follow you around until paid which I assume would take years to do. Honestly I think it’s out of line for him to even ask you to do this but that is just my opinion.


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To begin with, $80,000 sounds cheap for an ATP. It might get the ratings other than ATP, but somehow he has to get 1,500 hours. That means paying for wet aircraft, or flying pipeline, cargo or something for not much more than minimum wage.

For the personal advice, cosigning a loan for someone you’re not married to is risky business. It only very rarely has a pleasant ending. In my young career years I worked at a university and saw numerous PHD candidates with partners or even spouses that worked while their partner worked on their doctorate or went through medical school. With very few exceptions, at the end of the education road, or soon thereafter the relationship came apart, often ended by the one who was the recipient of the money that got them through school. Not saying yours is such a relationship, but you should think hard about such a possibility.

I offer my sincere best wishes on such a relationship.

My $0.02,
 
I'll add a vote for working, saving and earning ratings one at a time. It can be done, even with a salary in the range of 22-30k. (I'm doing this right now.) Has he flown a lot/been heavily exposed to aviation? If he hasn't, I would be worried that he might possibly find out flying is not quite what he imagined it would be. The pluses of this approach at this time is the lack of time crunch, since it will most likely be a few years before inexperience is marketable again, and the ability to stop at say, private pilot level, without any pressure.

I completely understand the desire to use your good credit and financial stability to help your boyfriend, but if it's possible, try not to think about this as doing a favor or helping your boyfriend, no matter how much you like him or want to help him get ahead. This would be a sacrifice, not a favor. It will effect you for many years. Try to think of it as you personally taking out that loan. Would you do it? You said no one else could. Would you want to do it even if someone else could co-sign? The 80k loan is not the only option. He can effectively co-sign his own loan by working and going through flight school evenings and weekends. It will not crush his dream to say no. Honestly, it would be much healthier for you and him to not have that behemoth in your relationship. Flight training is very stressful and the economy is stressful right now - if you are thinking of an 80k loan every time he gets upset during training or the economy tanks, it will make it so much harder.

Bottom line, I would not suggest taking out a loan for flight training, especially not 80k. If you can, depersonalize it to think about it. Would you consider taking an 80k bet? That is basically what you're considering.
 
MBDiagMan said:
For the personal advice, cosigning a loan for someone you’re not married to is risky business. It only very rarely has a pleasant ending. In my young career years I worked at a university and saw numerous PHD candidates with partners or even spouses that worked while their partner worked on their doctorate or went through medical school. With very few exceptions, at the end of the education road, or soon thereafter the relationship came apart, often ended by the one who was the recipient of the money that got them through school.
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I think this tends to happen because obtaining an advanced degree like that tends to change one’s view of the world in some pretty fundamental ways. If the spouse / SO is not changing in the same way, it can lead to a lot of differences that are hard on the relationship.

Agree with all the advice above on not co-signing a loan like this and the benefit of having some patience and working to support one’s education if needed.
 
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I'll sidestep advice on whether or not to co-sign, etc., because you're a smart young lady and are able to keep your own counsel on those matters. I am sure you'll make a good decision there.

Instead I would advise directly as though I was speaking to the aspiring pilot. Before committing to this route, it would be logical to "test the waters" a bit to make sure it's a good fit for all involved.

All of the accelerated part 141 schools I'm familiar with, and even some of the part 61 accelerated training operations (including university programs) will allow a client to enter the system with a private pilot certificate in hand. Why not start at a local flight school and knock out the private pilot certificate over the course of 6-8 months? It's a much smaller investment, one which could be "shared," and will "forward" to whatever he (or your both) desire to do with that certificate down the road. Additionally it provides some time to evaluate the effects of the training on the pilot himself, you, and your shared interest in this goal.

The career itself is not a bad career. I would still suggest it's worth pursuing despite the current economic situation.
 
I have two rules about money. I don’t bail anyone out and I don’t co-sign for anyone. I wouldn’t even do it for my own wife.

The $80k for the 141 school is a massive waste and more than likely a low number. If he can’t complete the curriculum and pass high check rides in the specified number of hours, that cost will go up quick! He could probably do it for half that, easily, if he flies wisely and takes advantage of safety pilot time and really dedicates himself to working for it.
 
So, a lot of great advice. I'll try to add something different.

He hasn't done a ton on research on this flying career path yet, so how serious is he? How hard is he willing to dig? Work nights, join the guard, etc.? How much research has he done? Has he flown before? Has he interviewed other commercial and ATP pilots to get advice? Why hasn't he posted here, and let you do the work for him? Is that a pattern of things to come?

If he is serious about you and flying, he'd be hustling to figure out how to do this without putting an $80k burden on you. That is nuts. Priority one is not flying, should be you.
 
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