Commercial ME first or Commercial SE

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TommyG

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So a few instructors were having a discussion about the commercial ticket. A couple are advocates of doing the multi first, the others think the single should be first. I am on the side of SE first. With the regs requiring so much PIC time and X Country time I see it as being not feasible to do the multi first especially without ME Private.

Thoughts?
 
I did ME commercial first. I ended up with more multi time in the end, so in that way it was beneficial.

It was more expensive, however.
 
I believe the requirements are different now from when I did mine back in the 80's..
That said, I can't see paying twin prices to practice lazy 8's.
 
Can you find a single complex to rent? That's your answer...


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There are no lazy 8s, chandelles, etc required for the ME commercial, only for SE.


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KyleT said:
Can you find a single complex to rent? That's your answer...


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Are they hard to find at flight schools? Harder than a twin? I was thinking the large rating mills would have both, but I've been out of that end of it for some time.
 
It depends on your goals. If you are trying to get a professional job, you can either to Comm SEL, add on multi and then build Multi time to get hired...

Or you can do MEL commercial first, then SEL add on (in any non complex trainer) and end with several more MEL hours that in example 1. You may still have to build multi hours, but somewhere less than example one..

If you are just doing MEL to do it, then I would go with option 1 everytime.
Costs don't end when the ratings are done though, if you are trying to get a job flying.
 
Commercial multi first, single engine add on later. It will help prepare you for CFI training, except in the other seat.
 
Zeldman said:
Commercial multi first, single engine add on later. It will help prepare you for CFI training, except in the other seat.
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You very well may be right, but I don't understand the logic..??
 
Why must one be right and the other be wrong?
 
Zeldman said:
Almost the same maneuvers in SE commercial as CFI. Just one is in the left seat, the other is in the right seat.
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Do you need to do the commercial maneuvers in the ME, then again in the SE ?
I did SE first. Granted, it was nearly 30 years ago so the PTS is likely different. That said, when I added my ME to my CPL I didn't have to do any commercial maneuvers... And good thing. Never could get those things right.
 
Commercial maneuvers aren't done in MEL, regardless of the order.
 
did the single first,the multi you spend most of your time playing with the engines.
 
dans2992 said:
I did ME commercial first. I ended up with more multi time in the end, so in that way it was beneficial.

It was more expensive, however.
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This.

The reason to do the ME first for the commercial is to get a leg up on ME time. A lot of the MEI programs want you to have x number of ME hours before you start that training, so it helps there.

I also think it makes it a little easier for the check rides. If you do the ME first, you can then do the ASEL in a fixed gear and you pretty much have a short oral followed by demonstration of the maneuvers that weren't done in the twin.

That said, there are some folks who will try to tell you it is cheaper that way (because you are doing the ASEL in a fixed gear), but it just doesn't work out that way.
 
SkyDog58 said:
So what makes those maneuvers an important skill for SE but not ME? :dunno:
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It is a safety thing.

The main reason you don't do the performance maneuvers in the ME is that those maneuvers take you below VYSE and occasionally below VMC while carrying a fair amount of power. It would be bad if you lost an engine in the middle of a chandelle or lazy 8.
 
TommyG said:
So a few instructors were having a discussion about the commercial ticket. A couple are advocates of doing the multi first, the others think the single should be first. I am on the side of SE first. With the regs requiring so much PIC time and X Country time I see it as being not feasible to do the multi first especially without ME Private.

Thoughts?
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Around here you pretty much have to do the ME first due to the lack of SE retract planes to rent.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It is a safety thing.

The main reason you don't do the performance maneuvers in the ME is that those maneuvers take you below VYSE and occasionally below VMC while carrying a fair amount of power. It would be bad if you lost an engine in the middle of a chandelle or lazy 8.
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Thanks and that certainly does explain why you might not want to do them in a ME, unless your name is Bob Hoover.

But it does not explain why it is considered an important skill in the SE but not the ME. If one never gets a commercial SE but just a ME, one will never demonstrate those maneuvers but can still fly commercially in ME aircraft. Is the thought that you are more likely to perform more radical maneuvers during the normal course of flying SE than you would in ME? There has to be some reason why the FAA wants these maneuvers performed and if so those reasons must only apply to SE if they are not required for ME. I'm just trying to figure it out.
 
SkyDog58 said:
But it does not explain why it is considered an important skill in the SE but not the ME. If one never gets a commercial SE but just a ME, one will never demonstrate those maneuvers but can still fly commercially in ME aircraft. Is the thought that you are more likely to perform more radical maneuvers during the normal course of flying SE than you would in ME? There has to be some reason why the FAA wants these maneuvers performed and if so those reasons must only apply to SE if they are not required for ME. I'm just trying to figure it out.
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I have always been under the impression that for the commercial, the FAA wants to see more 'oneness with the airplane'. Basically a higher level of flying skill rather than demonstrating maneuvers that a typical commercial pilot would encounter. I suspect that if safety wasn't an issue doing them in the twins, that they would require them there as well.

Hoover obviously demonstrates that there is nothing physically preventing you from doing such maneuvers in a twin, but still no the kind of thing you want to be doing with low time students.
 
I don't see why it would take more ME time doing first rather than as an add on. :dunno:
 
Henning said:
I don't see why it would take more ME time doing first rather than as an add on. :dunno:
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It doesn't necessarily take more time per se. You are just building it earlier.

I did it very differently - got my MEL as a PP and then did my COMM MEL before my ASEL. I'd have to look back in my logbook, but I had something like 50-75 hours of twin time when I did my Comm MEL.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It doesn't necessarily take more time per se. You are just building it earlier.

I did it very differently - got my MEL as a PP and then did my COMM MEL before my ASEL. I'd have to look back in my logbook, but I had something like 50-75 hours of twin time when I did my Comm MEL.
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I did as well, actually I had my ME (and Travelair) before I had my IR since IR was 125 hrs then and I got the plane with 60TT, I even ended up with my commercials before my IR.
 
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dans2992 said:
Because you have to do all the XC time in the multi.
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No you don't, you need to have the prerequisites done in whatever then the 10hrs training, that's all, whatever you need can be done in that time.
 
Henning said:
No you don't, you need to have the prerequisites done in whatever then the 10hrs training, that's all, whatever you need can be done in that time.
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If that's true, then my MEI ripped me off.
 
My MEI wasn't too keen on doing OEI ops over the desert at night...
 
Henning said:
Which you can do in the 10 hrs right?:dunno: Nothing says your specific training can't be combined into XCs.
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Even if you combine them, you still end up with more ME time than if you did SEL first and then a ME addon. You don't need 10 hrs ME if you are doing it as an add-on.
 
dans2992 said:
I wanted the ME time anyway, so I didn't care at the time.
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Fearless Tower said:
Even if you combine them, you still end up with more ME time than if you did SEL first and then a ME addon. You don't need 10 hrs ME if you are doing it as an add-on.
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Well, that's really the point that makes the whole question irrelevant, the minimum amount of ME time won't do anything for you anyway.
 
Henning said:
Well, that's really the point that makes the whole question irrelevant, the minimum amount of ME time won't do anything for you anyway.
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No, you questioned the assertion that doing the ME Comm first results in more ME time. I showed you that was true and you still seem to want to argue it.
 
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