Commercial ME first or Commercial SE

Fearless Tower said:
No, you questioned the assertion that doing the ME Comm first results in more ME time. I showed you that was true and you still seem to want to argue it.
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What, an extra 2-4 hours?:dunno: Like I said, you can combine the Commercial specific training and XC.
 
Henning said:
What, an extra 2-4 hours?:dunno: Like I said, you can combine the Commercial specific training and XC.
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Depends on the pilot. Probably more like 5 which if you continue on for CFI/MEI can make a big difference in cost/time for training.
 
ja_user said:
Commercial maneuvers aren't done in MEL, regardless of the order.
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No kidding?? I could be SE Private, ME Commercial, and never do a chandele ?

Damn!!! If I only knew!!
 
Fearless Tower said:
It is a safety thing.

The main reason you don't do the performance maneuvers in the ME is that those maneuvers take you below VYSE and occasionally below VMC while carrying a fair amount of power. It would be bad if you lost an engine in the middle of a chandelle or lazy 8.
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I don't much mind practicing max performance maneuvers, I just keep my hand on the throttles ready to chop power at the first sign of a stutter, and do them above Vmc altitude.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If you didn't need to flight instruct, you could even go all the way to ATP without ever doing one.
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Same for Eights on Pylons? Just curious because I don't see a safety issue with that maneuver.
 
So does it or doesn't it matter if you get your ME Private? I would think it would just for the basis of PIC time. And what do you end up doing on the check ride for CSEL if it is an add on.
 
TommyG said:
So does it or doesn't it matter if you get your ME Private? I would think it would just for the basis of PIC time. And what do you end up doing on the check ride for CSEL if it is an add on.
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The earlier you get your ME rating, the more opportunity you have to log ME time by catching rides with people. I used to take ramp rats with me for a leg if they had a way back, or if I was doing an out and back and let them log it. The CSEL ride will be the same regardless except for the complex stuff if you do it in a fixed gear plane.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If you didn't need to flight instruct, you could even go all the way to ATP without ever doing one.
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Pretty sure you need to do them for the SE Commercial add-on, but I guess if you don't want an SE commercial, you could...
 
dans2992 said:
Pretty sure you need to do them for the SE Commercial add-on, but I guess if you don't want an SE commercial, you could...
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Of course you do, but Kritchlow's comment was that if you were going to fly for the airlines and had no need for a Comm ASEL, you could go all the way without ever doing the maneuvers.
 
TommyG said:
So does it or doesn't it matter if you get your ME Private? I would think it would just for the basis of PIC time. And what do you end up doing on the check ride for CSEL if it is an add on.
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Yes, it you have the opportunity to build more PIC time (all the Comm MEL training can be logged as PIC) and for me, it made me much more at ease when I went to the Comm checkride.

For the SEL addon, you basically do a quick oral focusing on single engine systems and emergencies then for the flight portion you do the chandelles/lazy 8s/8's on pylons and then landings to include power off 180. There is a table in the PTS that shows which specific tasks you need to demonstrate for the addon based on the original rating held.
 
I think you just need to know what you want.

If you know for sure you are going to get your CMEL, regardless of the order, I'd think combining the CPL/ME-I first makes sense. You'll build more multi time (which you'll need at some point) and you can hopefully do most of the multi training congruent to the CPL training (on a XC, on the way back from the practice area, whatever).

If you don't then you'll just be paying for the multi time anyway down the road.
 
Kritchlow said:
I believe the requirements are different now from when I did mine back in the 80's..
That said, I can't see paying twin prices to practice lazy 8's.
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That.


Save money, you'll need it
 
One advantage of doing your ME first is that the school will probably let you rent from them after because you'll probably have at least 15 hours in the plane.
 
If one does their CPL ME first, and there are no commercial maneuvers, what does the check ride consist of??
 
Kritchlow said:
If one does their CPL ME first, and there are no commercial maneuvers, what does the check ride consist of??
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Stuff like a XC plan, pilotage, and a whole bunch of OEI stuff (ie VMC demo, feather/secure/restart, spot landing,OEI instrument approach, etc.


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Kritchlow said:
If one does their CPL ME first, and there are no commercial maneuvers, what does the check ride consist of??
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The the xc planning, a lot of take offs and landings, and a lot of single engine work. And 1 single engine approach if you have an ifr airplane rating.
 
dans2992 said:
Stuff like a XC plan, pilotage, and a whole bunch of OEI stuff (ie VMC demo, feather/secure/restart, spot landing,OEI instrument approach, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ja_user said:
The the xc planning, a lot of take offs and landings, and a lot of single engine work. And 1 single engine approach if you have an ifr airplane rating.
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So basically the same as my add-on almost 30 years ago... Maybe some extra xc planning.
It sounds more like a standard ME check ride.
 
It just seems odd that one can have a CPL ME, then bust a SE CPL because they screw up a chandelle.
 
Kritchlow said:
It just seems odd that one can have a CPL ME, then bust a SE CPL because they screw up a chandelle.
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Why is this odd? You could be an ATP and in theory flunk a private sel, ses or glider ride...

You're supposed to consistently pass the pts standards for every rating, the commercial maneuvers really do allow the dpe to determine your airmanship...
 
ja_user said:
Why is this odd? You could be an ATP and in theory flunk a private sel, ses or glider ride...

You're supposed to consistently pass the pts standards for every rating, the commercial maneuvers really do allow the dpe to determine your airmanship...
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It's odd to me. YMMV.

Obviously the CPL maneuvers don't mean all that much. For the professional multi-engine pilot, there is no requirement to do them apparently.
 
Kritchlow said:
So basically the same as my add-on almost 30 years ago... Maybe some extra xc planning.
It sounds more like a standard ME check ride.
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It is, however the oral is obviously longer than a typical ME checkride because you have to cover all the basic Commerical Pilot knowledge stuff in addition to the ME systems.
 
The main difference to any "add on" rating is that you don't have to take a written because you did it last time.
 
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