combined PPL & instrument rating

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Chris_Telford

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Chris_Telford
Due to Issues I have another 6 to 7 months before I can get my medical. I am currently 14 hours into training and would be soloing my next nice weather day. Has anyone done the Combined PPL and IR? I dont want to stop my Training I can fly about 10 to 15 hours a month. Would it be worth it to go this route?
 
How is it possible for you to fly solo without a medical?

Bob Gardner
 
I've never done it but there is nothing that says you couldn't. You'll likely end up with a lot more hours but hours translate to experience so nothing wrong with that.
 
He needs 50 hours cross county PIC time. Not sure how he can get that without his PPL or flying solo which would require his medical.
 
JasonM said:
He needs 50 hours cross county PIC time. Not sure how he can get that without his PPL or flying solo which would require his medical.
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That doesn't mean he can't proceed with the training. He will just need to accumulate the required hours before going for the instrument checkride.
 
LDJones said:
That doesn't mean he can't proceed with the training. He will just need to accumulate the required hours before going for the instrument checkride.
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That's True, I was looking at it from the perspective of him being able to take a combined checkride soon after getting his medical which I cant see how that could be done.
 
JasonM said:
That's True, I was looking at it from the perspective of him being able to take a combined checkride soon after getting his medical which I cant see how that could be done.
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Nope, he'd have to do the private ride when eligible, then build up the PIC time before the instrument ride.
 
This is what I have found

Pt. 141, App. M

5. Solo flight training. Each approved course must include at least the following solo flight training:
(a) For a combined private pilot certification and instrument rating course involving an airplane single engine: Five hours of flying solo in a single-engine airplane on the appropriate areas of operation in paragraph (d)(1) of section 4 of this appendix that includes at least—
(1) One solo cross-country flight of at least 100 nautical miles with landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.
(2) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
 
Chris_Telford said:
I would be soloing but due to no medical I can't.
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You could solo in a light sport aircraft, a glider, a motor glider, or balloon without a medical since a student certificate is issued independent of the ultimate certificate that is being attempted. The CFI would sign off on the appropriate endorsement once they are satisfied. However if you have medical issues that might make you unqualified to safely solo then some of those alternatives (such a LSA) would also be unavailable until the FAA says it is OK.
 
No reason you can't work on your IR after you get comfortable with VFR, you would still need to meet the solo requirements.:D
BUT, I'd make 100% sure you'll be getting your medical before I spend $1000's on flight lessons! :mad2:

Chris_Telford said:
I would be soloing but due to no medical I can't.
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Another question for the OP regarding the combined Private and Instrument pilot program....

Are you working with a Part 61 independant instructor flight school? Or a Part 141 flight school?
 
If you have a medical issue which is going to take time to resolve, doing a combined PP/IR program is an excellent idea. You can do all the necessary flying with an instructor aboard for both ratings (and there's a lot of that for the combined IR/PP) and save the solo flights (which are needed only for the PP portion) for the end after you get the medical. I urge you to discuss this concept with the potential instructors involved, and choose one with a coherent plan to accomplish this program given your constraints.
 
JasonM said:
He needs 50 hours cross county PIC time. Not sure how he can get that without his PPL or flying solo which would require his medical.
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No, he does not. See 14 CFR 61.65(g):
(g) An applicant for a combined private pilot certificate with an instrument rating may satisfy the cross-country flight time requirements of this section by crediting:
(1) For an instrument-airplane rating or an instrument-powered-lift rating, up to 45 hours of cross-country flight time performing the duties of pilot in command with an authorized instructor; or
(2) For an instrument-helicopter rating, up to 47 hours of cross- country flight time performing the duties of pilot in command with an authorized instructor.
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This is a relatively recent change, so I'm not surprised some folks aren't familiar with the details.

So, the OP can do all that XC flying while getting instrument training with an instructor before getting the medical, and then at the end to the required 10 hours of solo and three hours of test prep before taking the combined PP/IR practical test.
 
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I did it and do not recommend it. Mainly because it is difficult to maintain all private and instrument knowledge and PTS requirements to pass the final test during the length of training. It is a combined oral and practical.
No guidelines from the FAA for the test so it was difficult to find a local DPE - they were very reluctant to go through all the effort to research, plan and have it blessed. Finally gave up and asked the FSDO. They agreed. The oral was about 5-6 hours and the practical was probably about the same including discussion of the cross country plan, reviewing aircraft logbooks, preflight, and 3.3 hours on the hobbs.
FAA was very thorough and very fair, and I am grateful they volunteered - couldn't have asked for better examiners.
Although it sounds like a good idea to combine, I think it ended up taking more time and money than if they were done separately (not counting the 50 hours xc which was not required).
Afterwards I also saw a lot of benefit in the requirement and experience gained in the 50 hours of cross-country too.
And definitely make sure you can pass the medical before investing a lot of money.
Good luck, whichever path you choose.
 
I've always been a big proponent of waiting till you have over 100hrs and some major cross countries before starting your IFR.

Could you do it? Sure

Should you do it? :dunno: I wouldn't


I do think ATP inc does something like this.
 
Note that in addition to the 141 program issue C'Ron brought up, there's NOTHING even in part 61 that keeps you from STARTING your instrument training at any time. It's just that you can't take your checkride until you've got all the requirements out of the way.
 
flyingron said:
Note that in addition to the 141 program issue C'Ron brought up,
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Which 141 issue is that? I don't remember saying anything about Part 141. However, MTSU has been successfully running a combined PP/IR program under Part 141 for almost 10 years now (started as a 141.57 "special course" and then became a standard course when the rules were changed to include a specific PP/IR program).


there's NOTHING even in part 61 that keeps you from STARTING your instrument training at any time. It's just that you can't take your checkride until you've got all the requirements out of the way.
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Agreed, and I know folks who did it that way -- started training at 15, soloed on 16th birthday, completed all PP requirements by 16-1/2, logged a lot of solo XC's, started and completed IR training, and then took PP and IR practical tests back to back on 17th birthday.

And I would reiterate my statement that in the OP's case, this plan of action makes a lot of sense as long as the OP is reasonably certain s/he will get that medical next year.
 
I did my private and instrument combined. It was not easy but doable. We did the whole "supervised" PIC thing to meet the requirements.
 
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