Comair (Delta) jet crash in KY

as of just a few mins ago - one survivor. I hopw they are wrong.:(
 
They quote the FAA saying the preliminary report is there were no surviors. Dunno which reports are newer.
http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/082706cckkcwnatComairflightcrash.3deebd51.html
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=Comair+crashed+Kentucky&btnG=Search+News

All these press attempts to list all of the fatal crashes since 2001 are forgetting the fatal SWA overrun at Midway last winter.


You think they could list all of the fatal highway crashes in 5 years in a few paragraphs?
 
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This is terrible, my prayers go out to all involved.



*** Speculation Warning ***

Pure Speculation on my part. Did they try to take off on the wrong runway?


They closed 8/26 this morning

08/035 - 8/26 CLSD WIE UNTIL UFN


http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/20060803/airport_diagrams/00697AD.PDF

26 is only 3500 feet, 22 is 7000 feet.

Can a fully loaded CRJ-100 get off the ground in only 3500 feet?



James Dean


 
As of 9 Central time they are still saying only 1 survivor. You can listen to live coverage at http://www.wcpo.com they have streaming coverage.
My prayers are with the families

Mark B.
 
James_Dean said:
*** Speculation Warning ***

Pure Speculation on my part. Did they try to take off on the wrong runway?

They closed 8/26 this morning

08/035 - 8/26 CLSD WIE UNTIL UFN


http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/20060803/airport_diagrams/00697AD.PDF

26 is only 3500 feet, 22 is 7000 feet.

Can a fully loaded CRJ-100 get off the ground in only 3500 feet?
Click to expand...

The wind right now is right down 22.
KLEX 271254Z 22007KT 7SM BKN050 BKN060 24/21 A3004
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http://airnav.com/airport/KLEX
 
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I've been into KLEX many times. I've never been given the shorter runway.

22 and 26 are fairly close together on the departure end, but you can't really miss the markings. I hope this wasn't an attempt to save a bit of time on TO.

BTW, with 50 on board, that plane was full. DL has replaced a fair amount of mainline service with RJs. Several of the flights operating out of LEX used to be mainline.
 
Commuter Plane down in KY

Sunday morning just heard a comair/delta flight out of lexington KY for Atlanta crashed on takeoff one mile west of the Runway. 49 Dead one survivor in critical condition, possibly the Capt or FO.

Reports ( keep in mind this is the news, sigh) indicated the plane ( don't know the type) took off of the wrong runway a 3700' runway and it was supposed to take off of a 7000'+ runway.

Who knows! Tradgedy regardless. Have to wait till NTSB chimes in.
 
Re: Commuter Plane down in KY

Grrrrr just saw Mike posted the same thing in hangar talk. I looked for one I swear. Chuck can you merge this in with Mikes post?
 
Re: Commuter Plane down in KY

AdamZ said:
Grrrrr just saw Mike posted the same thing in hangar talk. I looked for one I swear. Chuck can you merge this in with Mikes post?
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Sure, Adam, sure ;)
 
Re: Commuter Plane down in KY

AdamZ said:
Grrrrr just saw Mike posted the same thing in hangar talk. I looked for one I swear. Chuck can you merge this in with Mikes post?
Click to expand...
Done.
 
wsuffa said:
22 and 26 are fairly close together on the departure end, but you can't really miss the markings. I hope this wasn't an attempt to save a bit of time on TO.
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They could have mistaked the markings, especially realizing the crew was tired. [Part of post removed]

CNN just spoke about the crew and referred to the first officer as the "first l[SIZE=-1]ieutenant." That's the media...

It's quite tragic, however; I hope we can all learn from this crash and read the NTSB report once it comes out. That's about all we can do -- learn from the mistakes that have been made, and try not to make those very mistakes.
[/SIZE]
 
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HPNPilot1200 said:
I think they may have mistaked the markings, especially realizing the crew was tired. The media (so take this like a grain of salt) has reported the crew was tired and from that, my own speculation would be that the crew taxiied to runway 26 and started their takeoff run. By the time the wheels were spinning and realized what they had done, they were already half-way down the runway and likely a few knots faster than stall speed, tried to get off, and somehow got themselves into a secondary stall.
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Tired? At 6 in the morning? When did they get there?
 
mikea said:
Tired? At 6 in the morning? When did they get there?
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Not sure, but it'll be interesting to find out how much rest they were given (the full 10 hours or not). Even with full rest, if they worked a full 14 hour day the previous day, you can still be pretty tired the next day and not fully on top of things.
 
I'm in Lexington as I type this. Of course its all over the news. I'm not going to speculate, but there was a line of thunderstorms that went through here at the time of the crash. The media is talking to aviation experts about engine problems on take off. Not that there is any evidence of that yet, but the Comair pilot Fox is talking to, brought up engine failure, V1, etc.

Very sad.
 
Since it is a towered field, I guess I find it hard to believe the tower wouldn't have noticed the aircraft on the "wrong" runway.
Speculation at this point I belive is a bad thing. We really have NO idea what so ever could have happened, until there are more FACTS presented there is just no way of knowing. The CVR and the Data recorder will tell the story I am sure.

My prayers to the families of all involved.

Mark B.
 
Last I heard was mention of some sort of "accident" at the end of the runway...perhaps striking trees?
 
Full plane. Takeoff distance required: 1768 meters, 5800 feet ( http://www.narita-airport.or.jp/ais/e/model/CRJ.html ).

Runway 26: 3500 feet, VFR, in poor condition.

The taxiway to Rwy 22 crosses the end of 26, so you taxi across 26 on the way to 22. So you have not only the signage but also the runway markings staring you in the face. And, if I recall correctly, 22 is a different paving color than 26.

Mistake? Most likely. Crew or tower? I'd put my money on the crew as my experience has been that tower does not assign 26 except upon request.

We'll wait for the report, but this sure seems like a tragic mistake.
 
how are you getting the idea that it departed runway 26 instead of 22? I'm just curious
 
SkyHog said:
how are you getting the idea that it departed runway 26 instead of 22? I'm just curious
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Because they closed 26 this morning.
 
Not only that, but the airplane is pretty much right off the end of runway 8. Sigh. I can't believe it, its a real shame for pilot error to cause such a loss of life.

Yet another reason to fly GA.
 
mikea said:
Because they closed 26 this morning.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that was just this morning? It's been closed, at least intermittently, for some time. Runway in poor condition.

You do have to taxi across 26 to get to 22, and for some reason they did use 26.

The latest news: The sole survivor is the FO.
 
WCPO web site said:
Families of the crash victims are asked to provide dental records, as the victims were all severely burned.
Click to expand...

:eek:

I wonder if they ever made it off the ground?
 
The news briefing from KLEX seems to confirm that ry 26 was used for take off as the crash site is in line with this runway.
Hopefully recorded information and the report from the survivor (it is reported it is the F.O.) will shed light on what may have went so terribly wrong.
Our prayers are with the family of those who perished as well as the one survivor.
 
SkyHog said:
Not only that, but the airplane is pretty much right off the end of runway 8. Sigh. I can't believe it, its a real shame for pilot error to cause such a loss of life.

Yet another reason to fly GA.
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I guess that the NTSB Go Team can be recalled since you have already reviewed all the data avaialble and reached the conclusion. Will your written report be available for distribution later today? Sheesh. Low time experts.
 
123456 said:
I guess that the NTSB Go Team can be recalled since you have already reviewed all the data avaialble and reached the conclusion. Will your written report be available for distribution later today? Sheesh. Low time experts.
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Well, if the a/c is off of the end of 8, and it was crew error, it is a tragic mistake.

If it's something else, then we'll find out.

Sheesh. High time gurus. No one knows for sure right now, but there is no reason to get rude about it is there? If Nick's speculation proves to be correct, are you planning on apologizing? I only ask because outside of political and religious discussions (where right seems to depend on perspective), facts are what we have to go by. Right now, the facts we have are sketchy, and just preliminary. But, believe it or not, sometimes thing ARE as they seem.

Here's to you, Mr. High Time General Aviation Pilot....
(sounds like a Bud commercial being brewed.....)
 
123456 said:
I guess that the NTSB Go Team can be recalled since you have already reviewed all the data avaialble and reached the conclusion. Will your written report be available for distribution later today? Sheesh. Low time experts.
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Mmm...awesome.
 
That's too bad.

Takeoff is something we all think of as being so easy. You just shove the throttle in and eventually the airplane starts flying. A five year old kid could do it. A monkey could do it.

The problem is when something is wrong with the airplane or you simply do not have enough runway. It can get ugly.

I have had a few instances as I blaze down a "runway" where I wonder if I'll actually lift off before the end...I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been in this situation...Ugh.

Fly safe everyone...
 
jangell said:
I have had a few instances as I blaze down a "runway" where I wonder if I'll actually lift off before the end...I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been in this situation...Ugh.
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Run the numbers. And pick an abort point. If you're used to flying out of long runways, the ground and trees can look awfully close on the first few times out of a short field.
 
'cause it's nto like our baseless speculation here guessed that they were on the wrong runway or anything.
http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5331439

What got me was the usual, 'The cause of the crash is unknown." on the morning TV news at 7 AM. WHAT??? Don't they know the cause an hour after it happened?
 
wsuffa said:
Run the numbers. And pick an abort point. If you're used to flying out of long runways, the ground and trees can look awfully close on the first few times out of a short field.
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The problem is quite often there really is no good abort point. The point in which you lift off from the runway does not have adequate room to abort takeoff and come to a stop without bending metal. You are committed to a takeoff. If your engine quits it's game over. Also it's really hard to take book numbers and relate them to runways that may be rough, wet, high grass...etc.. There are just too many variables.
 
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wsuffa said:
Run the numbers. And pick an abort point. If you're used to flying out of long runways, the ground and trees can look awfully close on the first few times out of a short field.
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Unfortunately, fields like 6Y9 don't offer that ability (for my Cherokee at least). To pick a safe abort point would mean never lifting off.
 
123456 said:
I guess that the NTSB Go Team can be recalled since you have already reviewed all the data avaialble and reached the conclusion. Will your written report be available for distribution later today? Sheesh. Low time experts.
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You haven't even been a POA member for a month and already showing us your backside!:rofl:
 
On the abort point discussion.
Doesn't mean you have pick a point that if you are not off the ground at that point. But a point to say "if I am not at xx airspeed" by this point I am going to abort.
When not at a "familiar" field where I know the runways and terrain, I TRY to do it, don't always but do TRY.

Mark B
 
SkyHog said:
Unfortunately, fields like 6Y9 don't offer that ability (for my Cherokee at least). To pick a safe abort point would mean never lifting off.
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I didn't suggest a part 121-style balanced field, I suggested abort point if you don't reach an expected speed by a give point. There's a big difference.

Yes, it requires some advance planning - and good knowledge of the plane/airframe. And no, it doesn't eliminate all risk. It's particularly useful in high density altitude areas.

You're comfortable with 6Y9... that's fine... but somewhere in the back of your mind I'd think you'd be saying "good enough for takeoff" or "not making enough power" on the roll. I suggesting a more formal method of doing that. You may choose not to, and that's your perogative as PIC.
 
Re: Commuter Plane down in KY

AdamZ said:
Reports ( keep in mind this is the news, sigh) indicated the plane ( don't know the type) took off of the wrong runway a 3700' runway and it was supposed to take off of a 7000'+ runway.
Click to expand...

Does an RJ really require that much runway?
 
jangell said:
The problem is quite often there really is no good abort point. The point in which you lift off from the runway does not have adequate room to abort takeoff and come to a stop without bending metal. You are committed to a takeoff. If your engine quits it's game over. Also it's really hard to take book numbers and relate them to runways that may be rough, wet, high grass...etc.. There are just too many variables.
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Better bent metal than loss of life.
 
No one here has proclaimed the cause of the crash. No one here has assigned blame. There have been a number of posts evaluating available information, speculating as to cause, and expressing concern for all involved.

Most here are capable of recognizing the difference between assignment of blame, and speculation, and its always coupled with theintent to learn (as we all should) from the tragedies which have befallen others, so that we might not repeat.


This ain't "Airliners.net" with a raft of pilot-hopefuls. 121 vets we ain't, but (in my experience) most recognize the value of gathering available information, applying it to the circumstances, and learning.

And we don't attack our friends, by assuming the worst of them when a less-offensive motive is reasonably supported.
 
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