Comair (Delta) jet crash in KY

Darrell111 said:
Any one see on CNN the video clip "Pilots view of crash"?

Makes me laugh!! They say .. "using SPECIAL software" This so called special software is MS flight sim 04. I like how they try to make it seem credible (even though it pretty much is) without saying its just a computer video game.
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I am so glad that those videos do not run on any computer I own. Youtube no problem but nothing from CNN ever comes through. What a bunch of Maroons. ;)
 
-- FAA acknowledges it violated staffing policies with only one air traffic controller on duty at airport when Comair jet crashed Sunday, killing 49 people.
Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com and watch FREE video, plus live, commercial-free video with CNN Pipeline. CNN - The most trusted name in news.
 
Len Lanetti said:
-- FAA acknowledges it violated staffing policies with only one air traffic controller on duty at airport when Comair jet crashed Sunday, killing 49 people.
Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com and watch FREE video, plus live, commercial-free video with CNN Pipeline. CNN - The most trusted name in news.
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Also just heard on the news: The lone controller, after clearing the plane for takeoff, turned his back to perform "administrative duties." That's why he didn't see the plane on the wrong runway.

It also makes you wonder how often the FAA "violates staffing policies" and how many more times we can expect to see accidents that, while they may ultimately be the pilot's fault, could easily have been avoided if controllers weren't so overworked.

Response from NATCA in three, two, one...

PS another thing I saw on the news yesterday: FO was the one at the controls. He's got a long road ahead of him.
 
OOOOhhhhhhhh Boy -- I can hear Marion Blakeley coming, with her "we need user fees" argument. They were understaffed. Clearly, this accident can be traced directly to General Aviation. It's our fault. We don't pay enough. Ugh.
 
Didja read the whole article????

The FAA wanted two people - one ground controller, one radar position. The radar position need not be in the tower, it was supposed to be handled by Indy Center. But for some reason, that never happened.

It's much less sensational if you read the whole article as opposed to CNN.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/15390096.htm

To some degree, the tower staffing issues are being stirred by the Union, who is not exactly impartial here.
 
BTW, this was not the only confusion the pilots had that morning: apparently they first went to the wrong aircraft.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/15391535.htm

That, of course, is not as sensational as the tower controller issue.

Sigh.

Hersman said an airport ground employee told investigators today that Polehinke and Clay arrived at the airport at 5:15 a.m. Sunday and got on the wrong plane first.

The ramp employee pointed out the error, and they moved to the correct aircraft, where the flight attendant arrived at 5:30 a.m.

She said there is no evidence at this point of alcohol use but doesn’t know why the crew chose the wrong plane at first or whether it matters.
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flyingcheesehead said:
Also just heard on the news: The lone controller, after clearing the plane for takeoff, turned his back to perform "administrative duties." That's why he didn't see the plane on the wrong runway.
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Based on the airport layout, I am not entirely certain that, in the pre-dawn darkness, the tower guy could have clearly recognized the diff.

flyingcheesehead said:
PS another thing I saw on the news yesterday: FO was the one at the controls. He's got a long road ahead of him.
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When I heard a quote this morning, that the CVR had the Captain making call-outs, I figured that was the case. Lord, that man will never get over this, may never have any peace.

I pray for the lost, but I pray for the FO as well.
 
I won't beat the blame game post like a dead horse but The following question pops into my head. I ask to understand procedure here , not to to be critical.

Q: At some point I gotta believe that the Capt and FO reached a location on the runway or in the roll that can best be described as an OH SH-T! Moment. Would that not have been before they reached the end of the runway ? If so would the procedure have been to try and get the plane up and flying even if just in ground effect or would it have been to apply full reverse thrust and both of them stand on the breaks even if it meant plowing up the field in front of them?
 
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AdamZ said:
I won't beat the blame game post like a dead horse but The following question pops into my head. I ask to understand procedure here to to be critical.

Q: At some point I gotta believe that the Capt and FO reached a location on the runway or in the roll that can best be described as an OH SH-T! Moment.
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I still can't get over the non lighted runway bit... how was that handled?
 
Someone during this long thread was talking about fatigue. You can be fatigued at 6am. Especially if you are on a "Nap" run. Greg B can probably talk more about them. Basically the jist on them for the regionals is doing the last flight of the evening into an airport and then first one of the morning and then you are dutied out. You hit your 14 hrs. So throughout the night you only get five hours so basically a nap between the two legs. You dont sleep well during these.

I am not saying this happened but both Comair and ASA do these type of runs. I have friends in both companies that do.
 
AdamZ said:
I won't beat the blame game post like a dead horse but The following question pops into my head. I ask to understand procedure here to to be critical.

Q: At some point I gotta believe that the Capt and FO reached a location on the runway or in the roll that can best be described as an OH SH-T! Moment. Would that not have been before they reached the end of the runway ? If so would the procedure have been to try and get the plane up and flying even if just in ground effect or would it have been to apply full reverse thrust and both of them stand on the breaks even if it meant plowing up the field in front of them?
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Depends on how close they thought they were to flying speed. If they thought they had a chance to fly, it is better to fly. If they thought it wouldn't fly, it is better to stop. Lets see what is on the FDR.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
PS another thing I saw on the news yesterday: FO was the one at the controls. He's got a long road ahead of him.
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Yes he does. Not attacking you Mr. Cheesehead, but just referencing your quote. Keep in mind one thing. The captain is the one with the tiller. So, he positioned the aircraft on the wrong runway. My only reason for stating this is, they both missed it.

Something that I kept in mind Monday when I made eight legs and a full 14 hr day. Then had to get up at the 10th hour mark and go again. As an old man once told me, "Learn from mistakes Young Flannagan."
 
Brent Bradford said:
Yes he does. Not attacking you Mr. Cheesehead, but just referencing your quote. Keep in mind one thing. The captain is the one with the tiller. So, he positioned the aircraft on the wrong runway.
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Wasn't placing any blame, just observing that it'll make his mental state even worse as well as potentially subject him to worse lawsuits. I would assume that the airline has to defend him right? And that he wouldn't be personally paying out? Though in today's world, who knows. :(

I wasn't aware that the CRJ had the capt-side tiller for nosewheel steering. What planes have these? I've seen it on an MD80-series, but not any others that I noticed in my quick glimpses into the cockpit.
 
wbarnhill said:
I still can't get over the non lighted runway bit... how was that handled?
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There was a notam for the centerline runway lights on rwy 22 to be inop. Basically they think this was misinterpreted when they got to the unlit runway 26 and thought .. hey this must be it.

Im sure if im wrong ill be corrected :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wasn't aware that the CRJ had the capt-side tiller for nosewheel steering. What planes have these? I've seen it on an MD80-series, but not any others that I noticed in my quick glimpses into the cockpit.
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Pretty much anything bigger than a Cessna 421.
 
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