color blind with basic med

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Flying while color blind

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I have a question for our forum lawyers, AME's and FAA types.

I'm currently flying under basic med. I have an expired 3rd class medical that has a "not valid for night flying or by color signal control" limitation on it. I'm not completely color blind just color deficient on certain colors. My drivers license doesn't have any limitations on it.

Since I'm self certifying that I'm fit to fly does that mean I am legal to fly at night under the rules of basic med? I am expecting all the legal and safe arguments to pile up on this question. Here is my plan to ensure I'm safe and fit for night flight.

I will take multiple night flights with an instructor for currency, proficiency and see if the CFI feels I'm able to see what I need to see at night. I only flew at night for my PPL training so it's been awhile.
Thoughts are towered airport light gun signals, confirm that I can tell the difference between runway and taxiway environments, navigation lights and beacons. The CFI will probably have a better idea what needs to be confirmed.

I don't have any plans to fly for anything more than recreational, so doing the SODA test doesn't seem worth it.

If it is considered legal can some help me find the exact FAR that I can fall back on if I ever need to provide it. I've looked through the FAR's and there is a lot of legalese that make my non lawyer mind spin in confusion.

Thanks for your input.
Flying while color blind
 
Have you had this conversation with the guy who’s signature is on the CMEC form?

For example does he/she know your deficiency?

What about talking with your eye doc about the nature, impact, and mitigation techniques for night flying. Hypoxia can begin as low as 5000 MSL and one of the effects is degraded vision at night, especially around color perception.

Once you’re fully aware, have the conversation with the CFI and develop a sound plan how to the experiment safely.

In the USAF initial chamber ride, the aerospace physiologists did the whole night vision academics section in a lights out classroom as well as in dimmed conditions to demo the impacts. Pretty educational.
 
Yes the doctor is aware. For the last 2 rounds of basic med exams he's documented color vision poor or abnormal. I have not talked to an eye doctor, but that's probably a good idea to see what kind of advice they can offer. I'm certainly good with experimenting under a controlled situation if everyone feels it's safe to do so.

The main question I was hoping to get answered is does my situation fall within the legal limits of basic med self certification? I understand that maybe no one really knows yes or no. I that case does anyone have any suggestions who I can reach out to for the answer without sharing my name ? Does the FAA have some kind on anonymous question board? Probably not would be my guess.
 
You’ll need a SODA in order to get around the restrictions on your license - that’s ultimately what is necessary to fly at night or by color signals. I don’t think there is a color test for basic med, but I believe you need to have passed a 3rd class medical before you can transition to Basic Med.
 
Eric Brunelle said:
You’ll need a SODA in order to get around the restrictions on your license - that’s ultimately what is necessary to fly at night or by color signals. I don’t think there is a color test for basic med, but I believe you need to have passed a 3rd class medical before you can transition to Basic Med.
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he has passed a 3rd class. But the 3rd class has limitations (cannot fly at night). So the question is - does the 3rd class limitation carry over to Basic Med. Its a very interesting question. Its like - if the 3rd class said vision correcting lenses were necessary ( because of say -10.0 near vision). Are you allowed to fly without your glasses when the previous 3rd class medical mandated that requirement, but there is no such thing on Basic Med.
 
Yes it does. He has to get the limitations off of his license. Can’t do that unless you get a SODA. The restrictions aren’t just on the medical - they are on the physical license. I have a SODA for color - now I don’t have the restrictions on my license. Didn’t need to show it to my Basic Med doc, but I do need to show it when I get an FAA medical, or the restrictions go back on. He won’t be legal to fly unless he gets a new license with no restrictions - need a SODA for that.
 
Eric Brunelle said:
Yes it does. He has to get the limitations off of his license. Can’t do that unless you get a SODA. The restrictions aren’t just on the medical - they are on the physical license. I have a SODA for color - now I don’t have the restrictions on my license. Didn’t need to show it to my Basic Med doc, but I do need to show it when I get an FAA medical, or the restrictions go back on. He won’t be legal to fly unless he gets a new license with no restrictions - need a SODA for that.
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t.

The limitations are attached to his class 3, not his pilot’s license, and he’s not using the class 3. If there’s not a restriction on his driver’s license, he’s clear legally.

It’s similar to Sport Pilot. No medical needed at all, no restrictions beyond the driver’s license.

Consider what John King went through with his medical. When he got his medical back, it had a restriction that he had to be accompanied by another pilot. John then got his Basic Med, which carried no such restriction.

The FAA doesn’t get to dictate Basic Med restrictions. Basic Med is NOT an FAA medical at all.
 
I had those limitations on my pilots license prior to getting a SODA ( for about 10 years). Finally got the SODA, and was issued a new license without the restrictions - “ not valid for night flight or by color signal lights” or something to that effect. Maybe the FAA changed things since then, but my experience is that the restrictions appeared on my pilots license. The SODA only comes into play when i get an FAA medical. I show the doc my SODA and don’t have to do the color test. From my own personal experience, the restrictions are on the license - unless the FAA has changed the way this is done now.
 
flying while color blind said:
Yes the doctor is aware. For the last 2 rounds of basic med exams he's documented color vision poor or abnormal. I have not talked to an eye doctor, but that's probably a good idea to see what kind of advice they can offer. I'm certainly good with experimenting under a controlled situation if everyone feels it's safe to do so.

The main question I was hoping to get answered is does my situation fall within the legal limits of basic med self certification? I understand that maybe no one really knows yes or no. I that case does anyone have any suggestions who I can reach out to for the answer without sharing my name ? Does the FAA have some kind on anonymous question board? Probably not would be my guess.
Click to expand...
It's definitely not legal if it isn't safe, so I would suggest you answer that question first. Can you competently and safely fly at night? It doesn't seem like you can yet answer that question.
 
Eric Brunelle said:
Maybe the FAA changed things since then, but my experience is that the restrictions appeared on my pilots license.
Click to expand...

In his opening post he stated the restriction is on his 3rd class medical:
Flying while color blind said:
I have an expired 3rd class medical that has a "not valid for night flying or by color signal control" limitation on it.
Click to expand...

That has no bearing on Basic Med, other than that his Basic Med physician may decline to approve him or may recommend he not fly at night. It's not an FAA medical matter because he's not using an FAA medical.

Now, that's not to say night flying is a wise thing for him to do, and he still has to ground himself if he's aware of any condition that makes flying unsafe. He's obviously aware of his limited vision, so if he chooses to fly at night and has a problem the FAA can still bust him. But it's not a Basic Med issue.
 
BasicMed doesn’t speak to this at all. The question of whether it’s a limitation on the OP’s PP-SEL has been brought up and not answered. If it’s on the license, like where mine says “English proficient” and some say corrective lenses are required, he’ll have to abide by it or get it changed. If it’s only on the medical, he should be legal to fly at night. Or, so it would seem. I have no opinion as to the advisability of it.

The light gun thing is an anachronism. Without looking it up, can you remember what the signals mean? If so, you’re a CFI who talks about it with primary students. In 30 years of flying, I’ve only seen the light gun once, when I asked a tower to shine one at me. OTOH, I’ve never had a comm failure. :shrug:
 
Maybe I’m wrong and that’s always the case. If so, a question related to the OP would be whether you’d be required to wear corrective lenses under BasicMed.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
… I’ve only seen the light gun once, when I asked a tower to shine one at me. OTOH, I’ve never had a comm failure. :shrug:
Click to expand...

The light gun is the last thing on my mind when it comes to night ops and color deficiency.

Differentiating red/blue/green runway/taxiway lighting as well as colors on avionics and EFBs is really top of mind for me. The runway environment is really top of mind since the lighting can be at different brightness/intensities and potentially washed out or overshadowed by other light pollution, among other things.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Maybe I’m wrong and that’s always the case. If so, a question related to the OP would be whether you’d be required to wear corrective lenses under BasicMed.
Click to expand...

It would have nothing to do with Basic Med directly. Corrective lenses are a restriction on my driver’s license, and a DL is required to use Basic Med. If the OP’s DL prohibits night driving, I believe he would be prohibited from night flying, since his DL isn’t valid at night.

The FAA cannot add restrictions to Basic Med. Basic Med is not an FAA medical and they do not control it. Basic Med is a congressionally-mandated alternative to an FAA medical.
 
My last medical has the idiotic "Must use amplfication." My driver's license doesn't. Basic med hence doesn't require it. I have a must wear glasses restriction on the license, so that applies to basic med.
 
The only limitation on my PPL is English proficient. The only place that shows the restriction is on the paper copy of my expired 3rd class medical and on the FAA airmen inquiry page. My DL lists restrictions as "NONE".
 
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