College Textbook Scam!

[ARFlyer]

So today I saw that our school bookstore uploaded the class book list. So I took the opportunity to order my books for the fall semester. As normal if I had brought from our "discount" bookstore it would have cost between $530 - $900. I'm sorry but for FOUR books that I will use only for three months I should not spend almost a grand!!!

Its really bad when you sell back to the store. You could have spent $200 for a math book and only get $5 back if anything.

So like in years past I bought everything from Amazon and it came up to $190. It would have been $50 cheaper if I didn't have to buy two online eBook/online work codes.

Also I find it kinda funny that they post the book list on their store website. Its like they shoot themselves in the foot business wise.

Thankfully I only have at most three semesters of this scam left. Unless I decide to go to grad school.

 

[Jay Honeck]

My daughter is facing that at Texas A&M.

At orientation, I asked about e-books. They replied that, yes, some text books were becoming available in electronic format -- but, no, NONE of them were viewable on an iPad! They were only available for viewing on a PC.

When I told them how ridiculous that was, given the relative popularity and convenient size of the iPad, all the lady could do was shrug and agree.

As much as I love books, I will be glad to see lots of the publishers fail. Their "let's rip off the kids" attitude has prevailed for way too long.

 

[denverpilot]

Their worry is that in the digital age, there's very few safeguards against copying stuff.

Sure, there's a patina of "security" on most document types used for stuff like textbooks, but it's usually only a Google search away on how to defeat it and send all "your" textbooks to ten buddies and split the cost.

The publishing world really hasn't figured out yet how to move from a paper world to a digital world and maintain their single-sourcing on multiple devices running wildly different operating systems.

But the overpriced school "official" bookstore? That's been going on forever. I remember in about 1993 when a local shop set up and offered to simply buy back used textbooks at a better buy-back price and sell them at a lower used book price than the official school store.

It freaked the school out so badly that they immediately started asking the publishers to rev the books every year. "12th Edition" was then specifically called out in the course book list.

Nowadays just replace local used book store with the Internet and Amazon.

And of course, this allllllllll ties back to the "publish or die" mentality of higher Ed professors and the business in general.

Many colleges publish their own textbooks, making them extremely difficult to find on the used market.

It's about money. Lots and lots of money. Not about education. At least four of my textbooks back then could have been replaced with a copy of Stick and Rudder and one was just the same stuff in any basic electronics book... But they (back then) were $75-$90 a pop.

There was a fascinating article this week in the Denver Post about State "land-grant" schools. A study about how we're "over-degreed" in many ways and there aren't great assistance plans for those who'd rather learn a trade.

The hidden kicker in the article that the reporter just kinda glossed over was the admission by the top MFWIC at Colorado State University stated that when he got his first degree at CSU in 1980, government (both State and Federal) paid for 75% of the operating costs of the school. Today, it's less than 25% and the costs of running the school are significantly higher. It's reflected in the rising tuition costs.

My (typical) first thought was "So did you take a pay cut for mismanaging your business?", but I know. I know. No one thinks that way anymore. He gets to keep his salary and bonuses and gets a raise regularly too.

Because you know, he "deserves" it for letting his costs increase while revenue decreased. The students will just have to take out life-crushing loans to keep him in his lifestyle. That's how it works today.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Why not see if you can rent them?

Chegg.com

 

[Matthew]

Both my kids are in college - there are used books for sale on the interweb. What really is bad is when the course needs a specific book that's a new edition, so there are no used versions and then doesn't offer the class for the next semester so there's no buy-back market. Some places will rent the book, some have e-editions but you need a particular reader and both my kids would rather have a hardback edition for schoolwork anyway.

Textbook prices are crazy high. Sometimes you have to bite down on that pillow real hard.

 

[DaleB]

Textbooks are a second income source for a LOT of college profs. "Take my class, buy my book to which I make minor revisions annually, then structure assignments so you can't use last year's edition."

 

[Florida Cracker]

As much as I love books, I will be glad to see lots of the publishers fail. Their "let's rip off the kids" attitude has prevailed for way too long.

It's not about ripping off the kids. It's ALL about ripping off parents.

 

[CJones]

Don't buy the book until you have an actual assignment from it. After a couple of years of buying books that I would never open throughout the semester, I quit buying them until there was something that I absolutely needed the book for. So many of the classes would require a $200+ book, but then the Prof would use their own PPT presentations for class material. I got good enough at taking notes on what actually matters - not just trying to write down everything that is presented - that I got by with my own notes.

If/when you do actually need a book, Amazon it, pay for next day shipping, and you're still at less cost than buying from the bookstore.

One of my Prof's made a deal with one of the publishers to be able to make a 'packet' of selected chapters from a few different books. One year, the sales rep came around for new contracts and told him that they wouldn't do the 'packet' deal any more. He said, "OK, I won't use ANY of your books, then". The rep went back to the company and told them they would lose the account if they didn't do the packet deal anymore. They still said 'No'. The sales rep ended up quitting the company because of how unwilling the company was to try to reduce costs for the users.

 

[Henning]

Academia is a huge scam, it has left higher learning for higher profits.

 

[fgcason]

rev the books every year. "12th Edition" was then specifically called out in the course book list.

At the community college I was at a few years ago, a new edition was mandated by the school/state every semester. If you take the books and compare them, they only did minor shuffling of the chapters around and sometimes not even that much. The paragraphs were word for word identical. Three editions in a row were identical except for the page numbers the material was on. You could literally flip pages with two books side by side and couldn't tell the difference between them. They were $200 books and the annoying bit was when a book covered sequential classes, the students had to buy both books -- $400 sometimes $600 for the exact identical same material that was in $200 of books and they had 2-3 copies when they were done. Idiotic stupid. It's criminal.
There was talk going on about figuring out how to make each student have their own copy because students weren't buying books from the bookstore sometimes. I assistant taught one class that regularly had 15-20 students and they were smart enough to go in together and buy 3-4 books for the whole class each semester. They even had a drop off point for the book if they missed each other on campus for any reason...assuming they were using that semesters edition. A common question was, "what material specifically is this in the book for chaper xx"..and they had two year old books in their hands. Fair's fair.

The prices of everything is horrifying. I use to get 12 hours at a university and all the books and supplemental reference materials I could ever want for less than half the price of one class at a community college nowadays and that doesn't even include books or other essentials.

The really scary part is that after forking out all that money and time, the department requirements for the material covered in the degree doesn't even cover employer entry level requirements to get through the interview for anything more than bottom end dead end side hobby jobs. That sucks for the kids however I don't have to compete against them for work. If we both have the same interview at the same place, I get the job because I learned the material outside of the structured education system. The show stopper interview question material is never even touched on in any classes.

 

[Ghery]

This is nothing new. I went to college in the early 1970s and the same thing was happening, just not to the same scale. The best example was tbe Econ text book. Samuelson had a new edition every year and the buy back price at the bookstore was 50 cents. That was the only non-engineering text I kept.

Oh, and the bookstore, they claim, was/is owned by the students. So, if I was an owner, why didn't I get a dividend or a discount? Anyone who walked in the door paid the same price for anything they sold. Same deal today. Am I missing something here?

 

[wsuffa]

Shall we start on tuition costs?

Makes book fees look like chicken feed.

 

[nddons]

Try med school or vet school. My daughter's 1st year vet school books cost $3,600, and that was just for the required books. The optional books would have cost an additional $2,000.

For her second year they "only" cost $1,400. Woohoo.

However, the school makes no pretense about stocking all of the books, and encouraged students to find them on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc.

 

[fgcason]

Shall we start on tuition costs?

Makes book fees look like chicken feed.

The cost of an education should not exceed the student's lifetime income in the field the degree is in.

 

[ARFlyer]

My Intro to Astronomy class last year used a professor written book. It was insane because you HAD to buy it from our bookstore. Even if you were lucky enough to find it online it didn't come with the required activity book.

I had one biology professor who told us that if we bought the book return it imminently. The only reason he required the book was because the Administration required the professor to list at least one book. He ended up using his own power-point slides and videos.

I keep all of my major textbooks which ironically are my aviation books.

The funny thing is that our bookstore originally was owned by a publishing group. But a local bookstore offered lower prices to our school and the neighboring school. So they ended up outbidding our old bookstore to be the school's store. Now they are as expensive or more then the old store. Got to love Monopolies.

 

[John Baker]

It's actually not about ripping anyone off, it's about making a profit. Without profit, you can not get loans, pay employees, pay your rent, purchase raw goods, set money aside for future expenses, or pay yourself.

It astounds me that kids who have reached a college level education, have absolutely no comprehension about any of that. Why does a one month supply of one cancer drug cost over a thousand dollars?

For my own part though, considering what little is gleaned from a college education, the whole thing is a rip off.

I honestly believe a kid could do a whole lot better in life if they used that same money to start a business, then went to the library to learn what they need to learn to run it.

Even start a research lab or a school for that matter, there is good money in schools.

What keeps just about every person who wants to own their own business from doing so, is they only want to start a business with what they would have after a lifetime of building one.

If they want to manufacture Widgets, they think doing it in a garage is not a business, and is beneath their dignity. They want a Widget business that will wow everyone, research labs, product development centers, and a factory that would make Henry Ford envious.

So they never own their own business because they can't afford to do it.

So what if they could afford to do it? They set up in a nice building, they hire the best crew, buy the best equipment, and go into business manufacturing and trying to sell Widgets. What if nobody wanted their Widgets anymore because someone else came up with a better Widget, a Widget that requires completely different equipment to manufacture? A great example of lots of money and no brains. I wonder if they are taught that in college?

Had they started small, they would have been able to adjust their product line to the market as it changed, without losing too much of their investment.

Experience, not wads of cash, is what builds a business. Sitting in an overpriced classroom will not do it. You might glean some fundamental information, but nothing you couldn't learn spending a few hours in a library, if you actually needed the information.

If you have no interest in owning your own business, and plan on being a worker bee, then a college degree will be of great help to you. The same if you want to go into medicine or law, or perhaps you want to join the education industry, you will need that college degree.

Going to college without a specific goal is just plain stupid, and a tremendous waste of time and money.

-John

 

[bigred177]

All you need is a DSLR and scantailor. I can do a 600 page law book in about 2 hrs and all I have to carry is my 7 pound laptop for all of my classes. Just go find a friend that did buy the book and borrow it for an evening.

 

[John Baker]

All you need is a DSLR and scantailor. I can do a 600 page law book in about 2 hrs and all I have to carry is my 7 pound laptop for all of my classes. Just go find a friend that did buy the book and borrow it for an evening.

This is very cool, if it works, you have just saved me a pile of money. I can rip off the people who put in the time, money, creative talent, and effort to create books.

Soon, nobody will have to purchase books at all, we can just copy them, this will be great.

Authors and publishers will be forced to work for the public good, rather than their rip off profits. They will be inspired by all the public gratitude to come up with even better books. Is this exciting or what?

-John

 

[GeorgeC]

I used half.com and amazon's textbook buyback a lot in grad school.

 

[poadeleted21]

My Math professor (i signed up to take classes I didn't even need, just because he was teaching them) Offered the University and the local bookstores to write a Calculus textbook that would satisfy the math departments curriculum and standards, he would do this for free and agree to have the book published only in paperback (so there would be a natural cycle of wear out and replace) and cost $50 I believe. His view was there there was really no new developments in the field of calculus or teaching of it since around the 1700s and the "editions" were nothing but a disservice to the students. Since the editions were timed so that no student would ever be able to sell back a Calculus book. They all laughed in his face. He quit requiring books or certain editions for his class and as such you could pick up about any Calculus book for $5 and get by. If you didn't want to do that, he'd give you a book.

 

[John Baker]

Do students copy ethics books?

-John

 

[fgcason]

This is very cool, if it works, you have just saved me a pile of money. I can rip off the people who put in the time, money, creative talent, and effort to create books.

Soon, nobody will have to purchase books at all, we can just copy them, this will be great.

Authors and publishers will be forced to work for the public good, rather than their rip off profits. They will be inspired by all the public gratitude to come up with even better books. Is this exciting or what?

-John

I agree with what you're saying in general however there are two sides to the whole mess.

The publisher or state or whoever is after a profit no matter what. They change the edition number on the cover of the book from one semester to the next to increase profits by eliminating the ability for any students to use a book for more than a single semester. The content doesn't have to change at all, just the edition number on the cover and presto, it's an all new book and the old book is magically obsolete because the page numbers don't match. Maximized profitability margins, go for it. Heck, change the editions halfway through the semester while you're at it and double your profits. (You watch, someone somewhere will do that in a few years if they're not doing it already)

With that in mind, to some extent you can't blame the student for setting up a camera to photograph the pages and reducing the publishers profit margins, or oh the horrors of them using a semester old book or sharing books. It's not exactly right however the students are to some extent just robbing a criminal who is robbing them to start with. I personally borrowed a 4 editions old book for a class I took which technically was screwing the publishers/school according to how they want students to buy books. I wasn't going to spend $400 on two identical books..but that makes me the bad guy? Seriously?

As a real world example: The program I was in as a student and assistant teacher, the technical design book was $150 a pop. It was required in four separate classes which were sequential and only offered every other semester and staggered so they couldn't take the classes all together in one semester. It wasn't possible to take 2 of the classes at the same time. To play fair with the publisher and state edition rules, the student had to buy the same exact $150 book four times (one per semester to keep the revision number up to date) to the tune of $600 total, plus tax. Edition x1 through edition x4 over two years were identical in content and layout except for the rev# on the cover, the rev# and publish date inside and the page numbers didn't match up. One day when several people were going on about it, I literally sat two books down beside each other on the table, matched the start of chapters and flipped through them together. There was no difference for at least 50 pages in different sections of the book even to the point that the sentences split to the next page on the same exact word. From a student's point of view and for all practical purposes, that is $600 for a single 1.5" thick book. It's the computer equivalent of having to buy a new copy of Windows 7 from microsoft every time I turn the computer on. It's total nonsense.

Some of this is different and dated material. Most isn't. It's not like the semester to semester edition changes for a generic class book goes from "throw rock into air" to "flap arms to go up" to "advanced orbital mechanics" to "assemble Saturn V to go to Moon" over two years for the same class. Some of the actual material for the books don't change for decades..or centuries.


So where is the line drawn for ethical behavior in such situations? Students copying the publishers material? Students using 1-2 year old exactly identical books? Or publishers/state forcing students to buy mandated new books still in the plastic shrink wrap every 3-4 months? Neither side is completely innocent in any of this.

The example above means $600 for a single book. Come on. Think about it. It's total nonsense.

 

[John Baker]

Brand new textbooks are expensive simply because not enough people purchase brand new textbooks. If 10,000 students purchase used textbooks instead of new ones, the textbooks still must be published, so, like cancer drugs, less demand = higher sell price.

It is much like a dog chasing it's own tail. The textbook publisher has to make ends meet, so since fewer students purchase brand new text books, he has to raise prices, and dream up more ways to bring in income.

So your thinking that if the publisher lowered prices, more kids would buy his books. That is true, but it would not increase sales enough to cover costs. If textbooks were only ten dollars each, there would be a huge number of kids who would find a way around even that low price.

We live in a selfish society that believes others should pay full price, but not ourselves. Other people can make up the difference, but not me. End result, even used books are more expensive than they should be.

There was a time, no longer needed college textbooks were simply given away. This was the start of lessening demand, and higher prices.

Put together a college textbook yourself. Research all the material, write the book, pay a printer to print and bind it, hell, you could do that for next to nothing. You would be able to help all your friends by giving them a free textbook.

So if you decided you had to at least get your printing and binding costs back, and charged your friends fifty dollars a book, half of them would think you were a rip off artist, cashing in on their friendship, wouldn't they?

You can not win for losing when dealing with cheapskates, who bring high prices on themselves, then bad mouth the guy trying to run a business and provide them with a good product.

Like I said before, quit wasting your money on college, your not learning anything.

-John

 

[poadeleted21]

Brand new textbooks are expensive simply because not enough people purchase brand new textbooks. If 10,000 students purchase used textbooks instead of new ones, the textbooks still must be published, so, like cancer drugs, less demand = higher sell price.

It is much like a dog chasing it's own tail. The textbook publisher has to make ends meet, so since fewer students purchase brand new text books, he has to raise prices, and dream up more ways to bring in income.

So your thinking that if the publisher lowered prices, more kids would buy his books. That is true, but it would not increase sales enough to cover costs. If textbooks were only ten dollars each, there would be a huge number of kids who would find a way around even that low price.

We live in a selfish society that believes others should pay full price, but not ourselves. Other people can make up the difference, but not me. End result, even used books are more expensive than they should be.

There was a time, no longer needed college textbooks were simply given away. This was the start of lessening demand, and higher prices.

Put together a college textbook yourself. Research all the material, write the book, pay a printer to print and bind it, hell, you could do that for next to nothing. You would be able to help all your friends by giving them a free textbook.

So if you decided you had to at least get your printing and binding costs back, and charged your friends fifty dollars a book, half of them would think you were a rip off artist, cashing in on their friendship, wouldn't they?

You can not win for losing when dealing with cheapskates, who bring high prices on themselves, then bad mouth the guy trying to run a business and provide them with a good product.

Like I said before, quit wasting your money on college, your not learning anything.

-John

See my previous post. My instructor (a great mathematician and well respected in the academic world) offered to write a book free of charge and even make it paperback so they would 'wear out' providing the editions didn't change every year and the price was set fair. they laughed at him. Maximizing profits and sucking every cent out of a small monopoly is what the publishers are after. Nothing has changed with Calculus in hundreds of years, at least not at the undergrad level. There is zero need for a calculus textbook at all, much less a new edition every year. The whole industry is pretty much artificial and unneeded in this day and time. Like i said, my calculus teacher didn't even require a book for his class, he'd throw you an old one from his collection for the semester if you just wanted one. I have a math degree, I purchased a Differential Equations book and a Graph Theory book, never did buy a calculator. A couple of Computer Science books, I consider mandatory to keep on the bookshelf, I purchased those and still use em today, 15 years later.... Some I don't think have ever been offered in a "new edition" and my 15 year old copies are still current. They're creating an artificial need where there isn't one.

 

[azure]

Don't buy the book until you have an actual assignment from it. After a couple of years of buying books that I would never open throughout the semester, I quit buying them until there was something that I absolutely needed the book for. So many of the classes would require a $200+ book, but then the Prof would use their own PPT presentations for class material. I got good enough at taking notes on what actually matters - not just trying to write down everything that is presented - that I got by with my own notes.

That might be good advice in some courses, in others it's VERY bad. In our online intro astronomy course, the book is required since there are no lectures. When I teach it as I am this summer, I do supplement the book with the power points that I use when I teach the lecture section, but the exam questions are drawn randomly from a question bank and may cover material that is not really emphasized in the power points.

You really need the book. You don't need the printed version, an e-book is available and is significantly cheaper, but you need the current edition in some form. You need to be reading it diligently from the first day of class. There is NO substitute for this. (No, I am NOT the author, nor is anyone at my university.)

And to those who say that high textbook prices rip off the parents not the students: most students where I teach are adults holding down full time jobs. They are not living under their parents' roofs and the cost of textbooks hurts them very badly. I had a student in my office yesterday who has been relying on the library's desk copy for the entire course this summer. She literally cannot afford to buy textbooks. She is not doing very well... predictably.

 

[denverpilot]

Do students copy ethics books?

Yes, when the school dropped *their* ethics for new "editions" every year of the same old material.

 

[hopmedic]

Yeah, when I was in school, there were very few books I bought at the bookstore, and if I did, it was only because they were not available anywhere else. I bought my books on ebay, Amazon, and a few other sources. I also resold most of my books on ebay when I was done with them. What a scam.

 

[poadeleted21]

Yes, when the school dropped *their* ethics for new "editions" every year of the same old material.

Having taken some Ethics courses in college, I could probably justify stealing books via some sort of "greater good" ethical philosophy

or just take Mr. Hoffman's advice

http://www.amazon.com/Steal-This-Book-Abbie-Hoffman/dp/0848813685

 

[ARFlyer]

That might be good advice in some courses, in others it's VERY bad. In our online intro astronomy course, the book is required since there are no lectures. When I teach it as I am this summer, I do supplement the book with the power points that I use when I teach the lecture section, but the exam questions are drawn randomly from a question bank and may cover material that is not really emphasized in the power points.

You really need the book. You don't need the printed version, an e-book is available and is significantly cheaper, but you need the current edition in some form. You need to be reading it diligently from the first day of class. There is NO substitute for this. (No, I am NOT the author, nor is anyone at my university.)

And to those who say that high textbook prices rip off the parents not the students: most students where I teach are adults holding down full time jobs. They are not living under their parents' roofs and the cost of textbooks hurts them very badly. I had a student in my office yesterday who has been relying on the library's desk copy for the entire course this summer. She literally cannot afford to buy textbooks. She is not doing very well... predictably.

My intro astronomy was like your class. If you didn't have the exact book as the professor then you were SOL. However they changed professors mid stream and the new one was all lecture board notes. He was a bit crazy but very very knowledgeable about General Relativity which was his doctorate at MIT. His thing was Type 1a Supernova to which he spent a month alone on.

 

[chucky]

In many of my classes (both ones I've taken and ones I've been a TA for) when using one of the the yearly-revision-gouge-the-students-in-exchange-for-revising-the-problem-numbers textbooks, the professors would sometimes provide page numbers or problem numbers for multiple editions of the book. I certainly would routinely see multiple different editions of Freedman's Universe used by different students. I don't recall it ever really being a problem.

 

[kyleb]

How does the department or professor get sucked into the "latest edition" trap? Is it academic "courtesy" to require your students to buy the newest version of the book someone half a continent away wrote?

Why not allow your students to be the last ones to use (say) a two edition old Calculus book? At that point, plenty should be available on the secondary market...

 

[John Baker]

In education as a whole, what is the biggest rip off, the textbooks, or the education itself?

Which one gives you the most bang for your buck, the book, or the professor?

Most students finish their academic years with a debt on student loans that will take them years to pay off. Not only will they be paying for their education either outright, or through loans, they will also be paying about a third of their taxes for education as well, for the remainder of their life.

If they majored in a field that will earn them a decent annual salary, then fine, it was money well spent. If they end up waiting tables or working in a factory then they got screwed, as way too many are.

I have a ninth grade education, which I'm sure many of you are aware of. My best friend, who became an attorney, for many years, earned less than I did. I was a Jr. corporate executive, he worked for the San Diego DAs office as a prosecutor. The financial tables changed for us when I started my own picture framing business, and he opened his own law practice specializing in personal injury.

He was killed in a car wreck in Texas a couple of months ago, over three hundred people attended his funeral. He was a very well loved, and a highly respected member of the San Diego community.

His university education was more than worth what he invested in it. What percentage of College graduates are getting their moneys worth these days?

-John

 

[poadeleted21]

In education as a whole, what is the biggest rip off, the textbooks, or the education itself?

Which one gives you the most bang for your buck, the book, or the professor?

Most students finish their academic years with a debt on student loans that will take them years to pay off. Not only will they be paying for their education either outright, or through loans, they will also be paying about a third of their taxes for education as well, for the remainder of their life.

If they majored in a field that will earn them a decent annual salary, then fine, it was money well spent. If they end up waiting tables or working in a factory then they got screwed, as way too many are.

I have a ninth grade education, which I'm sure many of you are aware of. My best friend, who became an attorney, for many years, earned less than I did. I was a Jr. corporate executive, he worked for the San Diego DAs office as a prosecutor. The financial tables changed for us when I started my own picture framing business, and he opened his own law practice specializing in personal injury.

He was killed in a car wreck in Texas a couple of months ago, over three hundred people attended his funeral. He was a very well loved, and a highly respected member of the San Diego community.

His university education was more than worth what he invested in it. What percentage of College graduates are getting their moneys worth these days?

-John

I graduated with 2 Engineering Degrees and 12,000 in debt (maybe 500 bucks of that was actually spent on books/tuition). My father wrote me one check for $1500 to help out with tuition one semester when i came up short and gave me a little eating and "walking around" money here and there, I know I cost him less than when i was living with him.

My education likely paid for itself in less than one year of my graduation date.

The education is not a rip-off, there's no such thing. My sister on the other hand left with 70K in student loans, a new car, $2000 dog and lived the high life during her tenure, she was on a full ride scholarship too. She walked out of Med school with a $120,000/year gig. Being stupid with loans isn't limited to non-college kids. The university isn't responsible for the financial mistakes it's patrons make.

I lived on about a $15/day budget, scheduled my classes so that I could work at least one job.

Don't believe the whining, and the protest signs. It's not that bad unless you're just stupid with money.

 

[denverpilot]

How the hell do you end up with $70K in loans on a full-ride scholarship?! Jumping Jeebus on a pogo stick, that's dumb.

And who gave someone willing to do that a full-ride and for what?!

Sorry... just floored here...

 

[Henning]

How the hell do you end up with $70K in loans on a full-ride scholarship?! Jumping Jeebus on a pogo stick, that's dumb.

And who gave someone willing to do that a full-ride and for what?!

Sorry... just floored here...

She was smart enough is why they gave it to her. $70k of debt isn't a bad thing when you start at $120k as a single young adult, you can pay that off with ease and have an 800+ credit score before you're 30. She loves life over money, good for her IMO. What's the problem?

Hey Bart, is she single?

 

[poadeleted21]

How the hell do you end up with $70K in loans on a full-ride scholarship?! Jumping Jeebus on a pogo stick, that's dumb.

And who gave someone willing to do that a full-ride and for what?!

Sorry... just floored here...

For undergrad she played softball, was accepted into med school early and went on academic after that.

She lived good, $2,000/mo apartments, 2 new cars, a $2000 French Bulldog.

 

[poadeleted21]

She was smart enough is why they gave it to her. $70k of debt isn't a bad thing when you start at $120k as a single young adult, you can pay that off with ease and have an 800+ credit score before you're 30. She loves life over money, good for her IMO. What's the problem?

Hey Bart, is she single?

Yeah, she's bitchting about it now, but really, she should have been able to pay it off in less than a year, but, she didn't, she married and got pregnant, bought a house, went on vacation etc.. etc.. etc.. Even at 70K the ROI was pretty sweet.

Hey Bart, is she single?

 

[N747JB]

I understand we live in a changing world, but how much has physics changed since last year? or for that matter how much has it changed since 1980? It's all about professors writing books and requiring students to buy either their books or their buddies books! I understand the need for books in college classrooms, and I understand the need to keep them current. But, there is absolutely NO REASON to change the editions each semester or even each year. Someone mentioned tuition, I looked at the breakdown on my daughters tuition bill, approximately 50% was listed as tuition, the rest is a list of 10-15 "fees" athletic fees, transportation fees, stadium fees, I can't remember them all, but almost none applied to my daughters studies!!

 

[N801BH]

I am with John Baker on this one.....

I am dumber then dirt, Barely got out of high school. Had a paper route @ 11 years old, and ALOT of other jobs... After HS I went straight into the job market.. Worked my A$$ off, saved every penny I could and managed my money as best as a ignorant person can... And I didn't get a dime in financial help from anyone either.

I can say I am better off now then 99% of the other people here in Jackson Hole. I fly almost every day, work when I like the customer(and) the job and enjoy life as full as I can...

I can't think of one other student in the 1300 + graduating class of Coral Gables HS that pulled off what I have done. In the year book I was voted "least likely to live till 20 years old". . Glad the point spread was more then 40 years on that bet.

When I head to OSH next week I will finalize an endowment to the Young Eagles Program in the 7 figure range so hopefully alot of up and coming kids can get interested in aviation.....

Not bad in my eyes for the idiot I am..

 

[Henning]

I am with John Baker on this one.....

I am dumber then dirt, Barely got out of high school. Had a paper route @ 11 years old, and ALOT of other jobs... After HS I went straight into the job market.. Worked my A$$ off, saved every penny I could and managed my money as best as a ignorant person can... And I didn't get a dime in financial help from anyone either.

I can say I am better off now then 99% of the other people here in Jackson Hole. I fly almost every day, work when I like the customer(and) the job and enjoy life as full as I can...

I can't think of one other student in the 1300 + graduating class of Coral Gables HS that pulled off what I have done. In the year book I was voted "least likely to live till 20 years old". . Glad the point spread was more the 40 years on that bet.

When I head to OSH next week I will finalize an endowment to the Young Eagles Program in the 7 figure range so hopefully alot of up and coming kids can get interested in aviation.....

Not bad in my eyes for the idiot I am..

you and me both. Hell, when I was 12 people were betting I wouldn't make 21. If I could have collected on those bets I could have bought an airplane a couple of years sooner.

I got my education from industry. I left school because the learning was too slow and I knew from working since a kid that they were teaching us old info no longer relevant to the industry. Instead I'd figure what I wanted to learn next and where I wanted to live, go there and find the best person in the field to go work for and hit them up for a job. I got paid to get my education a lot quicker that way and got educated in a lot more fields as well.