CO / Carbon monoxide detectors

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jmn444

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jason
So I've been looking at this pretty hard and finally figured out why the cheaper home models aren't as appropriate for aircraft, so now I'm wondering what the "right" aviation model is to get...

I'm leaning towards the pocket model 300 both due to cost and size, but open to suggestions and/or more info on alternatives.
 
I use a battery operated CO2 monitor and check the cabin a couple times a year and if I do anything with the exhaust. I found high levels in one plane during taxi so I know it works.
 
jmn444 said:
So I've been looking at this pretty hard and finally figured out why the cheaper home models aren't as appropriate for aircraft, so now I'm wondering what the "right" aviation model is to get...

I'm leaning towards the pocket model 300 both due to cost and size, but open to suggestions and/or more info on alternatives.
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I use both the Kiddie Nighthawk with digital display and the Quantum Eye. They both work well.

I have gotten CO in my Cardinal RG several times. Not from a mechanical failure, but it happens in this make and model if you perform 5+ take-offs and landings back to back.

You can't depend on yourself to keep an eye on the Quantum Eye CO detector, so the Kiddie Nighthawk (which I keep under the seat) beeps pretty loud enough to get my attention where I can look at the Quantum Eye for confirmation.

The CO Experts unit is by far the best device for general aviation for now, but the price is just a little too steep for me. If they could knock off about 50 bucks I'd buy one tomorrow for it's superior sensitivity.

I read the article that Ron posted a while ago and there is some great information there.

d
 
I use GasAlert Hydrogen Sulfide personal meters at work and it has gone off before the mill alarms before so it seems to work well. Vibrates, alarms, and flashes so you really can't miss it. I suppose the only downside is the daily test before getting in the plane.

Similar price range to the 300 for the Gas Alert CO meters: http://confinedspace.com/bw-gas-alert-clip-extreme-carbon-monoxide.html
 
Why are the home models not suitable for aviation use?

jmn444 said:
So I've been looking at this pretty hard and finally figured out why the cheaper home models aren't as appropriate for aircraft, so now I'm wondering what the "right" aviation model is to get...

I'm leaning towards the pocket model 300 both due to cost and size, but open to suggestions and/or more info on alternatives.
Click to expand...
 
GeorgeC said:
Why are the home models not suitable for aviation use?
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They are designed (by law IIRC) to inhibit alarms and display 00 below 30 ppm, a level that can lead to serious issues at altitude.
 
drgwentzel said:
The CO Experts unit is by far the best device for general aviation for now, but the price is just a little too steep for me. If they could knock off about 50 bucks I'd buy one tomorrow for it's superior sensitivity.
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aeromedix.com has it for $183.90 shipped to me. There's a coupon code EXPERT13 that you use on checkout to get $60 off. I bought one for my plane - it's small and works great. Cheap insurance, IMHO.

http://www.aeromedix.com/Ultra-Low-Level-CO-Detector-CO-Experts-2014.html
 
GeorgeC said:
Why are the home models not suitable for aviation use?
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Somewhat more important (to me) than the level they alarm at, is that they don't alarm "instantly", they are designed to alarm for 70ppm but only after 60-240 minutes of exposure! Otherwise I think I'd have gone that route if it was an instant alarm at 70.
 
jmn444 said:
Somewhat more important (to me) than the level they alarm at, is that they don't alarm "instantly", they are designed to alarm for 70ppm but only after 60-240 minutes of exposure! Otherwise I think I'd have gone that route if it was an instant alarm at 70.
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The home units still display the levels of CO2. The alarm may not sound, but you can see the level. I seem to recall mine at 50ppm, and going down to 20ppm as I took off. The CO2 built up when taxiing.

If you have an on going problem I would certainly recommend investing in a plug in or panel mounted unit, but for a quick check the home units that display the levels work fine for me.

YMMV.
 
True, and certainly better than nothing at all, I want an alarm to go off personally though.

Leaning towards the CO Experts 2014 model now... seems to be a better value based on the life of the unit. And no need to remember to turn it on each flight is a bonus over the pocket deally...
 
The FAA only requires that plane interiors remain below 50 PPM during the certification process so so having a detector that alarms at 20 or 30 might get quite annoying in many planes.
 
I didn't consider that Tim, I may take one of my home units up with me on the next flight to see what "normal" levels are, and then choose a unit that will alarm me as appropriate based on that.

Thanks!
 
tehmightypirate said:
I use GasAlert Hydrogen Sulfide personal meters at work and it has gone off before the mill alarms before so it seems to work well. Vibrates, alarms, and flashes so you really can't miss it. I suppose the only downside is the daily test before getting in the plane.

Similar price range to the 300 for the Gas Alert CO meters: http://confinedspace.com/bw-gas-alert-clip-extreme-carbon-monoxide.html
Click to expand...

If I had to vote the BR gas alert unit is the best one I have gone through, although its a little too sensitive sometimes (goes off in my trunk when I have the car running and open it up to throw something in) but it is OSHA approved for industrial occupational use.

http://www.bw-gasmonitors.com/xxyy-ga24xt.html

I purchased mine from amazon for about $100 and its a 2 year unit. The unit stays clipped to my flight bag so when I move around to different planes it goes with me.

FWIW mine has gone off several times in different planes we figured were good to go, and sometimes it was simple as making sure the cabin heat is full on or full off.
 
Geico266 said:
The home units still display the levels of CO2. The alarm may not sound, but you can see the level. I seem to recall mine at 50ppm, and going down to 20ppm as I took off. The CO2 built up when taxiing.
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Pull the red knob out a bit.
 
Geico266 said:
The home units still display the levels of CO2. The alarm may not sound, but you can see the level. I seem to recall mine at 50ppm, and going down to 20ppm as I took off. The CO2 built up when taxiing.

If you have an on going problem I would certainly recommend investing in a plug in or panel mounted unit, but for a quick check the home units that display the levels work fine for me.

YMMV.
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GEICO,


These are CO monitors, carbon monoxide, that can make you stupid and kill you, progressively, at levels above 50 ppm.


You keep referring to CO2, carbon dioxide, which is a *different* molecule. CO2 concentration is about 400 ppm in the atmosphere. Typically we don't monitor CO2 in aviation.


Paul
 
jmn444 said:
cheaper home models
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On a side note to this post,
This reminds me of taking a motorcycle safety course back in high school and the one thing that is stuck in my head 30 years later is when the the instructor made this statement about helmets. "Buy a helmet based on what your head is worth, if your head is worth $50 bucks then get a cheap k-mart poly carbonate (as he held up one split in half with the chin strap still attached that was in an accident) if it is worth more then spend what is appropriate.

I am not saying more expensive is always better. I am trying to say take the cost out of the equation and look for the right piece of equipment for the task.

FWIW I use this one, maybe not the best, or most expensive ($100 on amazon), but I felt it was appropriate for the task at hand
http://www.bw-gasmonitors.com/xxyy-ga24xt.html
 
I agree, it's hard to put a price on safety, but I try to find the best value regardless...
 
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I've never been to a track event where windows were kept up... even on the cold days... I wonder why he had his windows up? Is that normal at some types of track days?
 
jmn444 said:
I've never been to a track event where windows were kept up... even on the cold days... I wonder why he had his windows up? Is that normal at some types of track days?
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I wouldn't think so. I've never been to a track day but everything I've seen has been that, unless it's raining, windows shall be open.

Also, he notes that he had his doors unlocked but because he stalled his car and then restarted it the automatic locks kicked in again.
 
kenjr said:
aeromedix.com has it for $183.90 shipped to me. There's a coupon code EXPERT13 that you use on checkout to get $60 off. I bought one for my plane - it's small and works great. Cheap insurance, IMHO.

http://www.aeromedix.com/Ultra-Low-Level-CO-Detector-CO-Experts-2014.html
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Do you know what the sensor life is on that unit? I tried to find that data on their homepage (which is rather tinfoil-hattish), but all I could find was the 5-year warranty length. That seems long compared to other products that don't require periodic recalibration...long enough that it sets off my "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" alarm.
 
Jim_R said:
Do you know what the sensor life is on that unit? I tried to find that data on their homepage (which is rather tinfoil-hattish), but all I could find was the 5-year warranty length. That seems long compared to other products that don't require periodic recalibration...long enough that it sets off my "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" alarm.
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Well, considering it has a non-replaceable battery that they claim will last for 5 to 7 years. I'd say 5 to 7 years!

From Mike Bush's article back in 2002 (not swearing this is still applicable)

the CO Experts Model 2002 utilizes an electrochemical CO sensor, but the non-replaceable sensor in the CO Experts unit is much bigger and contains a far greater supply of electrolyte, allowing it to last for at least five years under normal conditions.
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Before buying a CO detector, you need to do some research. There are 3 different types of electronic detector: biomimetic, electrochemical and metal oxide semiconductor. Each type has a different useful life and there are varying sensitivities for each system. You want one that can detect below 50 ppm (preferably < 30 ppm) and I think an adjustable alarm set point is important.

Here is a good FAA report on CO poisoning from 2009. It also provides a review of all the devices that were available when the report was compiled. The tables show the sensitivity and alarm set points for each unit. Read it and make an informed decision.

http://avstop.com/news_march_2010/D...ide_exposure_in_General_Aviation_Aircraft.pdf
 
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Jim_R said:
Do you know what the sensor life is on that unit? I tried to find that data on their homepage (which is rather tinfoil-hattish), but all I could find was the 5-year warranty length. That seems long compared to other products that don't require periodic recalibration...long enough that it sets off my "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" alarm.
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I had their old model that gave an "expired" alarm at 4.5 years. Aeromedix sent me a brand new one and it lasted the full five years. Outstanding customer service and value. I just replaced it with their new, smaller model 2014 and am very happy with it.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I had their old model that gave an "expired" alarm at 4.5 years. Aeromedix sent me a brand new one and it lasted the full five years. Outstanding customer service and value. I just replaced it with their new, smaller model 2014 and am very happy with it.
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Does it alarm very frequently since it's set at lower levels to alarm? What year/model airplane do you fly if you don't mind me asking?
 
oops, just saw your link to the cardinal, never mind :)
 
jmn444 said:
Does it alarm very frequently since it's set at lower levels to alarm? What year/model airplane do you fly if you don't mind me asking?
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Good question Jason. I had the previous model on the floor just aft of the panel. You can see a picture of it here. It would go off sometimes when taxiing (with an alarm showing 10 ppm or so) if I didn't lean aggressively. It would also go off when someone drove up to my hangar in an old beater :). It was a bit of a nusance but it did remind me to lean while taxiing. The new model is much smaller and I have it mounted on the panel with velcro. It hasn't gone off at all, even at full rich while taxiing, so I think placement in the cockpit has a lot to do with it. To me, the panel is more realistic and it certainly is easier to read there.
 
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