Climb 3,000 expect 8,000 in 10 minutes........ from when?

[Larry in TN]

I have to imagine having four engines four these trips gave some piece of mind.

It was fun. Nice big handful of throttles (and they still called them throttles back when the DC8 was built!) I soon learned to only use the two inboard engines when making small speed adjustments on approach, though. Much easier than trying to make even smaller adjustments to four engines while keeping them all reasonably synced.

My only engine shutdown was in the DC8. It was around 2AM over the Indian Ocean. We had just reached cruise altitude climbing out of Diego Garcia (FJDG) on our way to Paya Labar AB, Singapore (WSAP). We were flying an out-and-back from Singapore (WSAP-FJDG-WSAP). I logged the round-trip as a single entry with a total flight time of 9.9 hours so almost five hours each way. (Pre-Part 117 so a 3-man crew [CA/FO/FE] was good for up to 12 hours of block time in a single duty period)

About 20 minutes, or so, after reaching cruise we got an indication that the oil filter was bypassing on the #2 engine (left-inboard). This normally indicates that debris has clogged the filter which suggests something in the engine producing metal chips which would be bad news of the engine. The procedure has us reduce thrust until the bypass indication stops. If it doesn't stop, an engine shutdown is required. It didn't stop so we shut it down.

We carried a flight mechanic whom the Captain called up to the cockpit. We carried a large (3,000#-3,500#) "fly-away kit" of parts for the mechanic to use to make repairs at remote locations where a parts supply isn't available. He looked through our inventory and say that we didn't have the parts to fix it so if we returned to Diego we'd likely be there for the better part of a week while parts were flown half-way around the world to us. We were the only scheduled service to Deigo so the part would have to wait for a military flight that was going that way.

When you lose an engine in a two-engine airplane you are required by regulation to land at the nearest suitable airport in point of time. That doesn't apply to a three, or more, engine airplane if the Captain decides that landing at a more distance airport is no less safe than landing at the nearest.

The Captain considered the situation and decided to press on to Singapore.

We had been cruising at M.80 with each of the four engines burning about 3,000pph each. When we shut down #2, we pushed up the three remaining engines to maintain M.80 and ended up with three engines all burning about 4,000pph each. 3,000 * 4 = 4,000 * 3. We arrived Singapore 4+ hours later, on-time and under burn!

There is a pop-pin on the oil filter bypass mechanism which the mechanic checked as soon as we landed. The pin pops out when the filter bypasses. The pin was not popped so the engine was fine. The problem was a electrical sensor that had failed. The mechanic deferred the false indication and the airplane, with another crew, departed for Tokyo within an hour, or two, of our arrival.

Douglas made good airplanes.

 

[Tantalum]

When you lose an engine in a two-engine airplane you are required by regulation to land at the nearest suitable airport in point of time. That doesn't apply to a three, or more, engine airplane if the Captain decides that landing at a more distance airport is no less safe than landing at the nearest.

I know the 747 was capable of flying on just two engines, is the same true for the DC-8? I assume "yes" but at a much lower cruise altitude. ETOPS and all that, I still like the idea of 4 engines 4 long haul.. back when the 747 was still in operation if the ticket price difference was small I'd always try and book on something with 4 engines

The problem was a electrical sensor that had failed. The mechanic deferred the false indication and the airplane, with another crew, departed for Tokyo within an hour, or two, of our arrival.

Interesting, so I assume the sensor also wasn't in the spare parts fly away kit. How long can you fly with a false indication? Presumably there's a risk that if the engine did ultimately start making metal you would not know about it until the engine itself started behaving poorly

 

[Larry in TN]

I know the 747 was capable of flying on just two engines, is the same true for the DC-8? I assume "yes" but at a much lower cruise altitude. ETOPS and all that

If you lose two, you're going to land as soon as possible. On a two-engine approach, you commit to the landing at 500'. After that, you don't attempt a go-around.

Interesting, so I assume the sensor also wasn't in the spare parts fly away kit. How long can you fly with a false indication? Presumably there's a risk that if the engine did ultimately start making metal you would not know about it until the engine itself started behaving poorly

I don't know if the part was there or not. The airplane was quick turning so they deferred it. The airplane would spend the night at Yokota AB and maintenance there could deal with it.

In flight, we thought the problem was a bypassed oil filter. On the ground, the mechanic determined that the oil filter was not bypassed so it was a false indication. The bypass indication is indirect. There is a low oil pressure light but it serves two purposes. If it's on, but the oil pressure gauge indicates normal pressure, then it is indicating a bypassed filter. That was the case on our flight.

 

[KeepWatch]

Just now checking back in. Boy have yall run with this thread. And yeah I've been over it before; it's just one of those little details you forget and when it's that small of a question it can be difficult to lookup the answer. And yes, proper phraseology answers the question. Thanks yall. Now continue to muddy up the thread to your heart's content.