Class D inside Class B

Indiana_Pilot

Indiana_Pilot

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Flying "B"
I am planning a trip to St Louis Regional Airport next month and wanted to brush up on a few things..

This is a Class D airport that is located in the Class B 5000-8000 feet shelf.

I anticipate I won't even actually enter Class B (above 5,000') but still have a few questions.

I plan on using flight following into St Louis Regional so that part seems simple..

When I depart and contact ground will they setup Flight following for me and give me a departure heading or since it's close to Class B or will they assume I won't want to go over 5,000 and just let me depart back to the East?

Or is it safe to assume that once I depart I can call up approach? The only reason I ask this is that in the notes it says when Tower is closed the Ground Freq is used for Clearance Delivery.

One last thing .. What are the chances If I wanted to fly around the St Louis Arch for pictures (above 3,000 and into the Class B) to be cleared to do so ?

Thanks!
 

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That airport isn't "in" the class B, just below it.

As for the departure, that would depend on the field and their relationship with approach. Some can grease things for you with flight following, some won't. Doesn't hurt to ask. I've generally found that even if they won't, they'll give you a frequency change early on so you can make an immediate request with approach.

Don't know about the arch but it seems like a reasonable request (though if you stay below 2000 and don't stray too far from the riverfront, you don't need to enter the class B).
 
Landed here summer before last VFR with flight following and they sent me almost over top of the arch as they brought me in.

My daughter was sitting in the back and got a couple great pictures!

-Dan
 
Yep, I knew it was under but didn't know how things worked since it was close.. As for the arch...it is surrounded by Stadium TFRs that extend to 3,000 (bottom of the Class B)

My luck I will be flying there during a game :)



flyingron said:
That airport isn't "in" the class B, just below it.

As for the departure, that would depend on the field and their relationship with approach. Some can grease things for you with flight following, some won't. Doesn't hurt to ask. I've generally found that even if they won't, they'll give you a frequency change early on so you can make an immediate request with approach.

Don't know about the arch but it seems like a reasonable request (though if you stay below 2000 and don't stray too far from the riverfront, you don't need to enter the class B).
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I don't think I'm cool enough to operate in Class B) airspace like you guys, but good luck and it sounds like you're on the right track!
 
I have flown through it many times and landed at Class B airspace a few times but just wanted to make sure I am right with this Class D...

I always over analyze things :D
 
I would stay VFR until I got my sightseeing done, then pick up FF to your destination.
 
kylec said:
I would stay VFR until I got my sightseeing done, then pick up FF to your destination.
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Wouldn't you still be VFR under flight following? Is there a reason why you couldn't have flight following while sightseeing?
 
Flight following doesn't mean you have to fly in a straight line. During training we use it for traffic advisories when we're flying in circles. Just let them know what you're doing so they aren't confused by your deviations from the expected route. Also sometimes they will just clear you through the class B anyways. Several times I've been on flight following, planning to fly around the San Diego Class B and they cleared me through without even asking.
 
Under Class B is exactly like outside Class B (which it is), except you have to have a Mode C transponder reporting altitude, and you're limited to 200 KIAS (14 CFR 91.117(c) ).

Flight following is not required, but it's a good idea because Class B tends to funnel traffic into smaller areas. It also makes the possibility of B clearance, and helps simplify radio procedures around other airspaces.
 
kylec said:
I would stay VFR until I got my sightseeing done, then pick up FF to your destination.
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Piggybacking on Brad Z: I just tell the radar facility providing FF that I will be maneuvering within x miles of y at zzzz feet and will give them a call when I am ready to depart VFR for Podunk International.

Bob Gardner
 
You should call clearance delivery to request FF. Tell them that you would like to make a flyby of the arch at 1700 and then head to your destination at whatever altitude you intend with (atis code). Stay on the Illinois side of the river on your Arch flyby and that will put you 1000 ft above and at least 2000 ft horizontal from it. They will give you your squawk and what frequency to expect to contact. Then you will contact ground that you are ready to taxi. You will probably get St. Louis departure who will either clear you through the class D at CPS at 1700 or they may give you a different altitude. Of course, the tower may be closed at CPS as well in which case it would be class G at that time anyway.
 
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bobmrg said:
Piggybacking on Brad Z: I just tell the radar facility providing FF that I will be maneuvering within x miles of y at zzzz feet and will give them a call when I am ready to depart VFR for Podunk International.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Yes, I think we're all 3 correct. My response was based on the fact that FF is available on a workload permitting basis. Does maneuvering increase their workload? Maybe, maybe not. I suppose it depends on how willing they are to work with VFR traffic.
 
I've never bothered getting a departure heading/alt out of Alton. (With the obvious exception of when I'm IFR...) Just tell them a south departure and be done. Then contact STL dep. on 24.2 and ask for FF for the Arch tour. They'll most likely clear you into the B, and give you headings and such if you need. If they deny you FF because they're too busy (:rofl:), just head south from ALN at about 1,500' and follow the East side of the river down. (Don't forget to call Downtown tower on 19.92 to transition their D )
 
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P.S. IMO, don't waste your time with the burgers at Highflyers Grille at ALN. Their pizza ain't bad tho...
 
When I flew into KSUS a few months ago on FF, another plane asked to see the Arch. FF was extremely helpful on giving vectors and coordinating traffic. I would ask for FF at the airport and if they cant/wont give you a squak, they should tell you to switch freqs. pretty quick after departure. I have never been given access to the Class B, so I would be prepared to stay low.
 
FF was very helpful when we asked to circle the arch at low altitude.
 
As others have said, some towers will coordinate FF and some won't. Centennial Airport (KAPA) in Denver is a D tower under B and they do not coordinate FF but will give a departure freq and authorize an early change if there's not traffic in your way.

Tulsa Riverside Airport (KRVS), D tower under E, will coordinate FF for you.

As others said... just ask.

As far as flightseeing... again just ask and be as flexible as you can be. They might be willing to work you around and then bring you back in or whatever. I've found in most cases they will let you do what you want unless there is a reason not to do so, rather than the other way around. Most controllers I've dealt with will tell you why they can't accommodate a request too, which is nice.
 
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