Civilian vs. Military (ANG) Route?

CC268

CC268

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CC268
Lately I have really been struggling to determine if the military route (specifically Air National Guard) is something I might be interested in. I don't know much about military, but I have done a lot of reading and been over on flyingsquadron (ANG forum) to get a general understanding.

The hitch is I have had asthma/allergies my whole life. I have never been hospitalized for it, but I do take montelukast and Dulera (preventative inhaler). My asthma is very much allergy driven and unfortunately Arizona is one of the worst states for it. Other than that I am a healthy person and in good shape all around. It is one of those things that really only flares up when I am sick with a cold/flu. But I realize that the military doesn't take asthma lightly. I have read quite a bit of the Air Force Waiver Guide regarding asthma. You essentially have to prove you haven't had asthma/taken medication after the age of 13. I certainly don't fit that category. All this said, I think my chances of even being accepted into ANG are slim to none. But there is a part of me that wants to at least talk to a recruiter. I have always looked up to the guys flying fighters and heavys - those guys are legends in my mind. I had several friends in engineering school who were in Airforce ROTC. Those lucky bastards are all in Oklahoma with pilot slots. In fact, one just got assigned to the B52 in Louisiana. Wow - what a trip. Can't help but really envy those guys. Those guys are out there making a difference while I sit in my cube - it is disappointing in a lot of ways.

The other option is the civilian route, which I am currently doing. I have discussed this with you guys before on here. Pay for my ratings while being an engineer, go into it with no debt (I don't have any debt now either). It would still be an enjoyable gig and it has been my original plan. I have already confirmed with two AMEs that getting a 1st class medical wouldn't be an issue.

So what are your guys' thoughts/opinion on civilian vs. military?

Anyways, wanted to bounce these thoughts off some fellow pilots here, I know many of you are or have been in the military.
 
If I were to do it all over again I'd probably do the Guard. I still am toying with the idea of trying to get a flying slot
 
SkyDog58 said:
Usually asthma is a non starter in the military due to the physical nature of military life.

Oh wait, you mentioned Air Force. Nevermind.
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Yea I think that is the reality of it. I guess I wouldn't know for sure unless I went and talked to a recruiter to get more info, but I am debating if I should do that or not.
 
My thoughts include this statement: you have noted that you won't be accepted by the military so do not continue to consider it. If you need to verify it by talking to a recruiter then by all means talk to a recruiter. In this case talking costs nothing more than a little time and it's the recruiter's job to talk to folks. Once the military fantasy is eliminated perhaps you can think clearly about other career choices.
 
Clark1961 said:
My thoughts include this statement: you have noted that you won't be accepted by the military so do not continue to consider it. If you need to verify it by talking to a recruiter then by all means talk to a recruiter. In this case talking costs nothing more than a little time and it's the recruiter's job to talk to folks. Once the military fantasy is eliminated perhaps you can think clearly about other career choices.
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Yea this pretty much mirrors my thoughts exactly.
 
Calberto has a lot of good comments about the ANG route on this thread. That being said, the first hurtle that's normally taken is the medical. The initial is way more stringent than any physical you've taken for the FAA. Talk to a recruiter, or better yet, talk to a military flight surgeon to make sure Asthma beyond the age of 13 is indeed non waiverable.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/any-military-aviators-on-here.99962/

I wanna say it's waiverable in the Army. You can "make a difference" in the Army NG as well.

 
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Velocity173 said:
Calberto has a lot of good comments about the ANG route on this thread. That being said, the first hurtle that's normally taken is the medical. The initial is way more stringent than any physical you've taken for the FAA. Talk to a recruiter, or better yet, talk to a military flight surgeon to make sure Asthma beyond the age of 13 is indeed non waiverable.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/any-military-aviators-on-here.99962/

I wanna say it's waiverable in the Army. You can "make a difference" in the Army NG as well.

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Thanks - I read through the thread you posted - very interesting. I think my best bet is to call an ANG recruiter and discuss the asthma to see if there are any options.
 
Be clear with the recruiter that the only conversation you want I have right now is whether would be medically qualified for pilot duty. The recruiters job is to get contracts signed, so that's what he's going to be interested in.
 
TCABM said:
Be clear with the recruiter that the only conversation you want I have right now is whether would be medically qualified for pilot duty. The recruiters job is to get contracts signed, so that's what he's going to be interested in.
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Thanks this is a great point and I have been warned about that
 
I know they fly F-16s down in Tuscon, KC135s here in Phoenix. Would I just call each base directly to talk to a recruiter?
 
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TCABM said:
Be clear with the recruiter that the only conversation you want I have right now is whether would be medically qualified for pilot duty. The recruiters job is to get contracts signed, so that's what he's going to be interested in.
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Can't stress the above enough. Everyone wants to fly, their job is to try and bring you down to earth into jobs that are hard to fill.

See each individual unit ANG recruiter.
 
Velocity173 said:
Can't stress the above enough. Everyone wants to fly, their job is to try and bring you down to earth into jobs that are hard to fill.

See each individual unit ANG recruiter.
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Haha yea I can only imagine. I realize it is probably a shot in the dark, both because of my asthma and I doubt they hire someone off the street like me to come fly.

Thanks for your help it is appreciated.
 
CC268 said:
Haha yea I can only imagine. I realize it is probably a shot in the dark, both because of my asthma and I doubt they hire someone off the street like me to come fly.

Thanks for your help it is appreciated.
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You never know. Seems like they're hurting for pilots everywhere in the military these days. Are you set on part time at local ANG units, or are you willing to relocate?
 
I would have your buddy at Barksdale put you in touch with a Flight Surgeon as well. Preferably one that's been around a while. They can easily look at what's waiverable and what isn't.
 
Velocity173 said:
You never know. Seems like they're hurting for pilots everywhere in the military these days. Are you set on part time at local ANG units, or are you willing to relocate?
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Honestly I think if I did anything military related it would be ANG or Reserves. Although I don't know anything about AF Reserves yet as I have only looked at ANG.
 
CC268 said:
I know they fly F-16s down in Tuscon, KC135s here in Phoenix. Would I just call each base directly to talk to a recruiter?
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Do not, DO NOT, talk to the recruiter. Find the number for the pilot squadron and call them directly. Find out who is in charge of pilot hiring. Ask when the next board is and what they need from you. Ask if you can come by and visit the squadron. But don't talk to the ANG recruiter. That's not how pilots are hired in the Guard.
 
jordane93 said:
If I were to do it all over again I'd probably do the Guard. I still am toying with the idea of trying to get a flying slot
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Do it. I was an east coast ANG guy for 16 years, close (ish) to where you live. We had plenty of guys and gals in your shoes (actively flying for a regional) come get hired and fly for us. It worked out really well for all involved. PM me for more info.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Do not, DO NOT, talk to the recruiter. Find the number for the pilot squadron and call them directly. Find out who is in charge of pilot hiring. Ask when the next board is and what they need from you. Ask if you can come by and visit the squadron. But don't talk to the ANG recruiter. That's not how pilots are hired in the Guard.
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Interesting...don't you have to go through MEPS first before you would be considered? I need to get an answer on my asthma before I can start applying. And quite frankly the answer will probably be no. But I am thinking I might want to give it a shot.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Do not, DO NOT, talk to the recruiter. Find the number for the pilot squadron and call them directly. Find out who is in charge of pilot hiring. Ask when the next board is and what they need from you. Ask if you can come by and visit the squadron. But don't talk to the ANG recruiter. That's not how pilots are hired in the Guard.
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Just looked at the board application...162nd wing isn't open to civilians - must be a military member (AGR or DSG) of the Arizona National Guard, either Army or Air Force, either officer, enlisted or warrant officer. Interesting reading the application guide though.
 
Agree with Sluggo - recruiters don't deal with pilot candidates until after the board where we hire people. You need to talk to someone (a pilot) in the unit that you want to join.

Also agree that you should talk to a flight surgeon first - again the recruiter doesn't know jack about medical requirements to fly. You don't go to MEPS until after you've been hired; having said that, this is an issue that you should be up front about. I sit on our hiring boards and if I found out that you weren't up front but we sent you for training anyway I would make sure your next sortie was your fini flight. Just be up front about it and try to talk to a FS asaply.
 
EvilEagle said:
Agree with Sluggo - recruiters don't deal with pilot candidates until after the board where we hire people. You need to talk to someone (a pilot) in the unit that you want to join.

Also agree that you should talk to a flight surgeon first - again the recruiter doesn't know jack about medical requirements to fly. You don't go to MEPS until after you've been hired; having said that, this is an issue that you should be up front about. I sit on our hiring boards and if I found out that you weren't up front but we sent you for training anyway I would make sure your next sortie was your fini flight. Just be up front about it and try to talk to a FS asaply.
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Are the recruiters in ANG just for enlisted? Is there a pilot in the unit that is specifically tasked with providing applicants information on the hiring process?
 
EvilEagle said:
Agree with Sluggo - recruiters don't deal with pilot candidates until after the board where we hire people. You need to talk to someone (a pilot) in the unit that you want to join.

Also agree that you should talk to a flight surgeon first - again the recruiter doesn't know jack about medical requirements to fly. You don't go to MEPS until after you've been hired; having said that, this is an issue that you should be up front about. I sit on our hiring boards and if I found out that you weren't up front but we sent you for training anyway I would make sure your next sortie was your fini flight. Just be up front about it and try to talk to a FS asaply.
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Hmm...I can see if I can come up with a number for a flight surgeon. The reality is I might be better off just accepting and enjoying the civilian route. I think I have read every internet thread on asthma in the military, and I haven't heard of any folks getting through with asthma, unless they hadn't taken ANY asthma medication for years. Not saying it is impossible but it seems unlikely.

I am somewhat confused on the whole process, but I am looking into it. I guess in my case it would be talk to a flight surgeon, then take AFOQT, TBAS, then apply to boards?

Anyways, thanks for the help.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Are the recruiters in ANG just for enlisted? Is there a pilot in the unit that is specifically tasked with providing applicants information on the hiring process?
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Basically yes and yes there is a pilot or two assigned for corralling all the pilot candidates that are 'rushing' the unit. That's how it works in fighter land anyway.
 
CC268 said:
Hmm...I can see if I can come up with a number for a flight surgeon. The reality is I might be better off just accepting and enjoying the civilian route. I think I have read every internet thread on asthma in the military, and I haven't heard of any folks getting through with asthma, unless they hadn't taken ANY asthma medication for years. Not saying it is impossible but it seems unlikely.

I am somewhat confused on the whole process, but I am looking into it. I guess in my case it would be talk to a flight surgeon, then take AFOQT, TBAS, then apply to boards?

Anyways, thanks for the help.
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Probably a good idea. That sounds like quite a hurtle. Nothing is impossible but if you can be happy elsewhere I'd go for that.
 
EvilEagle said:
Probably a good idea. That sounds like quite a hurtle. Nothing is impossible but if you can be happy elsewhere I'd go for that.
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Yea...we will see what happens, if it isn't an option, then maybe in another life.

Thanks to all the fellow aviators for the help.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Do not, DO NOT, talk to the recruiter. Find the number for the pilot squadron and call them directly. Find out who is in charge of pilot hiring. Ask when the next board is and what they need from you. Ask if you can come by and visit the squadron. But don't talk to the ANG recruiter. That's not how pilots are hired in the Guard.
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WHAT HE SAID!

The ANG is the best flying gig going. Each guard unit hires pretty much like a private sector employer would. They (sometimes) advertise openings, review resumes, interview candidates.

Frankly, with a history of taking medication for just about anything your odds of being hired are greatly reduced.

If you are serious about the ANG why don't you let them make the medical call. The worst that can happen is you get to visit their squadron and they tell you no. It's not like you couldn't get a date to the prom. Life will go on. ;)
 
JimNtexas said:
WHAT HE SAID!

The ANG is the best flying gig going. Each guard unit hires pretty much like a private sector employer would. They (sometimes) advertise openings, review resumes, interview candidates.

Frankly, with a history of taking medication for just about anything your odds of being hired are greatly reduced.

If you are serious about the ANG why don't you let them make the medical call. The worst that can happen is you get to visit their squadron and they tell you no. It's not like you couldn't get a date to the prom. Life will go on. ;)
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My understanding is that if I am serious about it I would need to find a flight surgeon to talk to like Evil said. I read through one of the board application guides and it is certainly a huge commitment. Three years training and then 10 year commitment. If I was single and didn't have asthma I would do it in a heartbeat - I would have nothing to lose! Also the fighter unit board here in AZ is not open to civilians like some others are. I couldn't find a board application for Phoenix, but they fly KC135s - in that case I would probably prefer to just go the civilian route anyways.

And I'll be completely honest here - I'd rather have someone flat out tell me "look man it isn't gonna work with your asthma" then have someone sugar coat it and say "yea there might be a chance..."

Here is the thing too...I could technically stop taking my medication and I would be okay...I have gone months without taking it. The problem is that with asthma your lung capacity goes down over time. The medication helps to keep that "elasticity" of your lungs for lack of a better term. So at some point I would probably fail the Pulmonary Function Test (which means my lung capacity would be below a certain percentile. I believe the FAA requires you to be above 80% if I recall correctly). Not trying to be a debbie downer, just being up front and honest about the reality of it.

So I appreciate the honesty and the feedback. Worst case I become a civilian pilot and maybe I can fly some cool stuff...not as cool as you fighter guys, but somewhat cool :D
 
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I would second EvilEagle. As someone who has had to deal the the AF waiver process, I will tell you that it can be very frustrating. Not all flight surgeons are equal in terms of how hard they try to keep the pilots flying. They are fair, in my experience, but sometimes it comes down to how to interpret the regs. Meaning that even if you get over the initial hurdle, there may be others that follow.
 
Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback and help. I agree with everything that has been said.
 
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