Civil Aircraft Landing Permit - military airfields

gitmo234

gitmo234

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gitmo234
Was wondering if anyone had any experiences landing at military airfields. I have a permit for Fort Eustis (Felker Army Air Field), and I'm scheduled to use it next week.

They told me to give them a call 10-15 miles out with my approval number and they'll vector me in for the rest. Was wondering if there are any experienced pro's here who know of any details or helpful tips?

thanks - paperwork and permission is already in order.
 
If all your paperwork is in order, there's really nothing left to do. I just got approval to fly into the DYS air show this weekend. Base Ops has all my paperwork, it's just a matter of checking in with ATC, give them the PPR number if they ask and comply with instructions. Will be like landing at any other controlled field.

Felker is an interesting place though...Flight Concepts. :wink2:
 
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Only done it once myself. Had my PPR number all handy and they never asked for it. They had my tail number on file at the tower I guess, and knew when I was expected, so it was routine. Basically operated like any other Class D for the arrival.

Had to check in with Base Ops before departing and do an in-person briefing, but that was the only quirk on departure.
 
Use them every day. Transient Alert military equivalent to your FBO. Base Ops is like your FSS. Usually will have a "Follow Me" truck to take you to transient parking. Make sure you ask how you can access your plane during all hours and where you can and can't walk on the flightline. May not be a problem and Army fields but at an AF base, wrong step and you could end up eating pavement with an M4 in your face.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Use them every day. Transient Alert military equivalent to your FBO. Base Ops is like your FSS. Usually will have a "Follow Me" truck to take you to transient parking. Make sure you ask how you can access your plane during all hours and where you can and can't walk on the flightline. May not be a problem and Army fields but at an AF base, wrong step and you could end up eating pavement with an M4 in your face.
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Ahh I remember those days. I was once a crew chief on C130s. Never step across the red line.

I have a permit processing for all CONUS army and air force air fields for work. I was just worried that there would be something I missed. I'm actually looking forward to it. Southwest is going to get a lot less of my business
 
Never saw a follow me truck at Felker but its been a long time...after initial contact give them the PPR and no different from any other controlled field...they will be real helpful and tell you where to go. Army Airfields don't require you to call to crank...don't try that anywhere else...Check in with base ops for access and do not break out your camera and start taking pictures...
 
Make sure you have copies of all the forms with you and original signatures on your insurance papers.
 
Warlock said:
Never saw a follow me truck at Felker but its been a long time...after initial contact give them the PPR and no different from any other controlled field...they will be real helpful and tell you where to go. Army Airfields don't require you to call to crank...don't try that anywhere else...Check in with base ops for access and do not break out your camera and start taking pictures...
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Well at least one Army Airfield (FBG) requires a call. We were operating out of there a few years ago during the weekend when the tower was closed. On Monday when we left we completely forgot to tell ground when we were cranking. He didn't get ticked off but he did let us know we needed to call him prior to crank.

One thing I would do is definitely call ground to any reposition on the ramp. You can have movement areas at some of these places that are used for landing and taking off helos that would seem to be non movement but actually are movement.
 
Unless you've confirmed that avgas is available for sale to transient civilians, make sure you have enough gas to get somewhere else where avgas is available.
 
Thanks to everyone so far... this has been suspiciously easy.

The million dollar question and the pandoras box that will likely make this a multi-page thread:

Reimbursment for travel expenses... Someone I work with does all his official travel, and showed me the process for getting my travel voucher paid... $1.29 a mile.

Does this play into the "cannot get paid more than pro rata share to fly"?
 
gitmo234 said:
Thanks to everyone so far... this has been suspiciously easy.

The million dollar question and the pandoras box that will likely make this a multi-page thread:

Reimbursment for travel expenses... Someone I work with does all his official travel, and showed me the process for getting my travel voucher paid... $1.29 a mile.

Does this play into the "cannot get paid more than pro rata share to fly"?
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Depends: Are you flying solo?

Do you have Commercial/2nd Class or Private/3rd Class?

If so, is the $1.29 more than your direct costs for the flight (fuel, oil, fees)?
 
Man oh man, this could have saved us a huge headache at the airshow that was organized on an AFB last weekend. Every pilot I know flew to a nearby field and then drove a rental the last 10 miles and had to wait in line with all the soccer-mom minivans filled with snot-bubble kids.

So if it is possible to land at a military field, what is the process (and criteria) to obtain a permit?
 
To the dollars question: I'm a private pilot. As it stands now I may carry a passenger (hes undecided), but he wont be chipping in on costs and I will not be reimbursed anything for him. The potential reimbursement is the same whether he is there or not.

To the military field landing, except in certain circumstances you need to have official status and be on official business. I'm a federal employee in my full time job and will be traveling on official business, and they verified that with me before giving me approval
 
gitmo234 said:
Reimbursment for travel expenses... Someone I work with does all his official travel, and showed me the process for getting my travel voucher paid... $1.29 a mile.

Does this play into the "cannot get paid more than pro rata share to fly"?
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No, it does not. The pro rata share is by regulation based solely on actual direct cost ("only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees"), and counts only regarding what you collect from your passengers.

The issue of reimbursement is an IRS problem, and the IRS does not accept that "standard" Federal government reimbursement rate for the cost of a business flight -- they accept only provable costs. Unless you have a year's worth of all costs prorated over your year's hours of flying with IRS-acceptable documentation for it all, the IRS will allow only the same direct cost of the flight the FAA uses in 61.113(c) (and then only if you have the receipts). The agency for which you are making the trip may pay you the full $1.29/mile, but come April 15, you'll have to pay tax for "excess reimbursement of business expenses" on anything that comes to above the IRS-allowable cost of the flight (although if you do the documentation, you can at least deduct your indirect costs like maintenance, hangar, and insurance). You can check this with the IRS, AOPA Legal, or any tax professional (I checked with them all -- and a second tax pro, too).
 
gitmo234 said:
To the dollars question: I'm a private pilot. As it stands now I may carry a passenger (hes undecided), but he wont be chipping in on costs and I will not be reimbursed anything for him. The potential reimbursement is the same whether he is there or not.
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For a PP, you're stuck with the Mangiamele interpretation.

If you're solo, you can be reimbursed for up to 100% of your expenses. under 61.113(b). You cannot receive more than your direct costs (fuel, oil, fees). So if the $1.29 is less than your fuel bill, then you can accept it. If it's more, you need to take only your costs.

If you are carrying passengers or property, then you cannot be reimbursed directly by your company, however your passenger can pay a pro-rata share.
 
Good news then. Glad to hear it. thanks for the info. I'm out of town at least one, usually two weeks out of every month for work, this may become my new means of travel for all east coast trips.
 
BigBadLou said:
So if it is possible to land at a military field, what is the process (and criteria) to obtain a permit?
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The first thing you need is business on the air base, and (other than when the military explicitly invites private planes to the air show or safety presentation, which is rare) going to see an air show isn't that. Generally, this means being a government contractor doing business on the base. For details, you'll have to see each service's web site on the issue. Here is the Navy's: http://www.navfac.navy.mil/products_and_services/am/products_and_services/afl.html
 
BigBadLou said:
Man oh man, this could have saved us a huge headache at the airshow that was organized on an AFB last weekend. Every pilot I know flew to a nearby field and then drove a rental the last 10 miles and had to wait in line with all the soccer-mom minivans filled with snot-bubble kids.
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Depending on who at the base organizes the airshow, some bases will organize a civilian fly in and some won't and will put details on how to participate on their website.
 
BigBadLou said:
Man oh man, this could have saved us a huge headache at the airshow that was organized on an AFB last weekend. Every pilot I know flew to a nearby field and then drove a rental the last 10 miles and had to wait in line with all the soccer-mom minivans filled with snot-bubble kids.

So if it is possible to land at a military field, what is the process (and criteria) to obtain a permit?
Click to expand...

Yeah as said above, it depends on the base. Just because an air show is on doesn't mean they'll welcome civilian fly ins. The show in DYS this weekend is organized with the local EAA chapter so they're letting EAA members fly in.

We had to send a CALP request form, a proof of insurance form and personal information such as phone # address, drivers license number etc. Problem is, now they want us there on Friday AM and the planes have to stay until Sunday when the show ends. Doesn't look like that schedule will work with me so we may end up not going.
 
Call to crank was always an issue and the Army had dumped it at a time that everyone started on Batteries...having an APU sort of changed things but the tradition remained...I found my myself face down on the ramp with multiple M-16's pointed at me at Bittburg Airbase and to top it off a dead battery after the deal the first time I forgot with the Air Force. I really thought I was going to jail...the Commander of the SP's thanked ne afterward for giving his guys a no notice security test....everyone was laughing but me...I got over it.
 
As a member of a military flying club I had access to all of the airfields with active clubs. I believe that the assumption is that the pilot has been properly screened and belongs on base. It was open to anyone that had base access privileges ie. contractors, federal technicians, active duty, reserve, and national guard members.

We even had ramp space to park your own plane for a VERY reasonable rate.

The problem is that my club and as far as I know, most of the clubs in the region are now closed.....
 
Velocity173 said:
If all your paperwork is in order, there's really nothing left to do. I just got approval to fly into the DYS air show this weekend. Base Ops has all my paperwork, it's just a matter of checking in with ATC, give them the PPR number if they ask and comply with instructions. Will be like landing at any other controlled field.

Felker is an interesting place though...Flight Concepts. :wink2:
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Eustis is...different. Kinda unassuming, unless you know otherwise. Have done some work there, and Ft Campbell. Same kinda stuff, only Ft Campbell is more well known. Makes for a neat day job, until I found what the contractors made for the same job I was doing.... now that I am out after 14 years, I am trying to become a contractor, but all the contracts are drying up. :mad2:
 
Getting all the paper work like a PPR number in advance is what we used to do many years ago when we were hauling cargo for the military. One of our pilots used to do all the paper work, so I'm not to familiar with that part of it.
It's gotten me into places like Laguna Army Airfield near Yuma, China Lake Naval Weapons Center, some small strip in White Sands Missile Range, Aberdeen proving grounds in MD.
Most of the cargo we hauled were 8" experimental artillery rounds for the proving grounds.
 
zodiacflyguy said:
Eustis is...different. Kinda unassuming, unless you know otherwise. Have done some work there, and Ft Campbell. Same kinda stuff, only Ft Campbell is more well known. Makes for a neat day job, until I found what the contractors made for the same job I was doing.... now that I am out after 14 years, I am trying to become a contractor, but all the contracts are drying up. :mad2:
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Yeah not much going on at Eustis, however Felker is home of Flight Concepts Division; arguably the best pilots in the Army. Not that those boys are ever around but Felker is their address.
 
The name kinda makes it sound nerdy doesn't it? I was held over after AIT and I was allowed to do a little OJT instead of the usual stuff casuals did like KP or CQ runner. It was eye opening for sure. A few months later I was sent to Ft Campbell as an augmentee along with my guard unit to fill out the 160th for Iraq. Only thing I didnt care for was the extra few weeks of mind games you have to go through before they take you seriously.

Sent from my phone thingy using the Tapatalk2 doohickey
 
Flight Concepts...is that the name they are using these days...had them come recruit my unit while deployed in the Balkans...lost two OH-58D pilots who met the profile overnight with no explanation...they knew who they were looking for.
 
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Warlock said:
Flight Concepts...is that the name they are using these days...had them come recruit my unit while deployed in the Balkans...lost two OH-58D pilots who met the profile overnight with no explanation...they new who they were looking for.
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Yep. They were recruiting when I was there as well. Didn't even bother to do the pre assessment. None of the guys that I knew that applied got picked up either. I've only known a couple of guys that have worked for them and they're pretty tight lipped.
 
Zodiac, did you go through Green Platoon when you were there? Had a few guard guys go through with me. Good group all around and helped us out a bunch on the maintenance!
 
Yes, I did. That was the few weeks of mind games I was referring to. Easier for me than it was for some. I was was only a few months out of Basic/AIT. We had one guy that was a SFC. He had a bit of issue at first getting hollered at by a CPL... he made it though. We only had a couple fall outs. most were for med reasons, and one guy couldn't get a secret clearance.
 
zodiacflyguy said:
Yes, I did. That was the few weeks of mind games I was referring to. Easier for me than it was for some. I was was only a few months out of Basic/AIT. We had one guy that was a SFC. He had a bit of issue at first getting hollered at by a CPL... he made it though. We only had a couple fall outs. most were for med reasons, and one guy couldn't get a secret clearance.
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It was a lot of mind games, but for a purpose. Would definitely have been easier out of AIT for sure. But, I will say it did prepare me for what was to come. In the 12 years I spent in that unit, I was never bored!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Definitely. Of course the Army being what it is, after gaining a bit of experience in UH-60s (I had a ton of OJT at the unit before I shipped and I worked a few days a week at Felker when I was held over at Ft Eustis) they slotted me in A Co 1st batt. Can't say I was mad... neat little aircraft. Learning the history of the airframe made me not like the jetranger/kiowa even more. After a while I did some work at C Co. I had NO idea that blackhawks were so capable....

B. Boss... you an O or an E?
 
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I was an E. Did my time in 2nd Bn. I'm a civ now, and I like that even more!
 
Man, we must all know the same people. Lots of TF and FC guys retire and come work for us, so if any of you are looking for a job, PM me for more info, I know we are hiring A&P's (specifically, crew chiefs) and I think pilots as well right now.

EDIT: UNLESS YOU'RE A CHINOOK GUY, WE DON'T WANT CHINOOK GUYS.

(just kidding, we take Chinook guys)
 
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darrell said:
Man, we must all know the same people. Lots of TF and FC guys retire and come work for us, so if any of you are looking for a job, PM me for more info, I know we are hiring A&P's (specifically, crew chiefs) and I think pilots as well right now.

EDIT: UNLESS YOU'RE A CHINOOK GUY, WE DON'T WANT CHINOOK GUYS.

(just kidding, we take Chinook guys)
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Hater's gonna hate! :lol:
 
It's all good, I was a 64 guy, so I know what it's like to be hated. I tried to reenlist for Chinooks, but no dice, I was tainted...

But now I have been redeemed! (And I just don't tell people about my wicked past.)
 
darrell said:
Man, we must all know the same people. Lots of TF and FC guys retire and come work for us, so if any of you are looking for a job, PM me for more info, I know we are hiring A&P's (specifically, crew chiefs) and I think pilots as well right now.

EDIT: UNLESS YOU'RE A CHINOOK GUY, WE DON'T WANT CHINOOK GUYS.

(just kidding, we take Chinook guys)
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Seems we do. I'm looking forward to the frequent trips. So far I've called the air fields I visit primarily and all were happy to accommodate. I'm looking forward to Pax River the most.
 
I miss it. It was only a year, but I wanted to go back for more. I wss toying with the notion of going full time if I could get TF guaranteed. Only place I wanted to go. The thing that blew me away was the climate was far more relaxed than I thought it would be. Where else would you see a CSM with his hands in his pockets?

Sent from my phone thingy using the Tapatalk2 doohickey
 
Yeah, that was back when it was really fun. You won't see that any more. Once we got bigger, we inherited all the problems that come with it.
 
gitmo234 said:
Thanks to everyone so far... this has been suspiciously easy.

The million dollar question and the pandoras box that will likely make this a multi-page thread:

Reimbursment for travel expenses... Someone I work with does all his official travel, and showed me the process for getting my travel voucher paid... $1.29 a mile.
Click to expand...

I've done this a few times and as recently as last month.

First thing is you need to talk to your command travel folks....they usually want to make sure you have command approval to fly your personal airplane first.

Once you have that, you can arrange your travel. Yes, the personal aircraft rate per the JFTR is $1.29 per mile, but you won't get that. Under the travel regs, you are entitled to the lowest cost to the govt, which is usually airline. In other words, IF your command approves it (I have been at commands that didn't due to 'public perception' concerns), you will probably get reimbursed for whatever the govt would have paid the airline. It doesn't cover your expenses, but sure helps make it worthwhile,

What I had to do one last travel authorization is look up the round trip mileage and put in the cost at $1.29 per mile, then call SATO and get the govt airfare rate for the trip and put both in the travel authorization with a comment about requesting reimbursement at the cheapest cost to the govt.

Your travel office may have different requirements, so best talk to them for more details.
 
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