Cirrus SR20 or Bonanza V35A for commercial time building?

I flew a Cirrus SR22T and a bonanza A36TN both FIKI for a medical group...after 1000 hours in the Cirrus they sold it and we owned 2 bonanzas...the beech product is far superior no question. We had alot of mx problems we didn't have with the beech(s) , not to mention the plastic/velcrow feeling of the Cirrus. As Jesse mentioned a Piper HP single is worth a look, might be the answer . I have flown those as well and while truckish they can get you up high with pressurization and make you feel like your almost in a turbine but those systems do tax the engine and the wallet.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
No way what would work?

The example I gave is a real world club in San Diego: Plus One Flyers, look it up. I'm a member. I live in Virginia. I made a couple cross country trips from San Diego this past year. Many members don't even live in the US- they come here and rent a plane once or twice a year.
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I'll need to look into that. Do they have any PA28s? I have been to SoCal once and am planning on making it a once or twice a year thing.... I have rented before at SNA. Be nice to have another option, depending on buy-in and dues.
 
teejayevans said:
How would that work? With larger clubs it may work, but if you have only 5 planes and 1-2 members take week long trips during a holiday week, you got 98 members fighting over 3 planes? Maybe there is a large segment that flys so infrequently, I don't understand it, why bother if only flying 1-2 times a year.
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While its a larger club, it's the same airplane to pilot ratio. That's why the OP needs to ask how active the other members are. Might be tough to reserve a plane, or darn near impossible. Just depends on how active the members are.

With Plus One, it makes sense because dues are really cheap: about $30 per month and there is no buy in. The airplanes are essentially on leaseback and owned by individual club members. So for the $30 a month, you have access to a variety of planes at some relatively cheap hourly rates ( much cheaper than anything near me). A lot of those members are people like me who have business in San Diego a few times a year and might want to rent a plane while we are there.

I had one trip where I had a meeting on a Friday, the the nothing to do until the ship got underway on Monday. So I rented a PA28 and went up to
Long Beach for the weekend.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I'll need to look into that. Do they have any PA28s? I have been to SoCal once and am planning on making it a once or twice a year thing.... I have rented before at SNA. Be nice to have another option, depending on buy-in and dues.
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Yes, they have a few Warriors and Archers

There is no buy-in. You have to attend a new member briefing and then it's around $30 a month club dues. You can cancel anytime.

I cancelled my membership when I first moved away from San Diego, but rejoined this last year since my job has had me traveling to San Diego several times. I'll probably cancel again when this job ends.
 
taters said:
the beech product is far superior no question. We had alot of mx problems we didn't have with the beech(s) , not to mention the plastic/velcrow feeling of the Cirrus.
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I find that very surprising. The interior of the Cirrus is anything but cheap. The interior is definitely one of the selling points of the Cirrus along with the chute of course. The OP said the Cirrus is a lot cheaper to rent. I'm surprised you're all pushing him to the more expensive bo at this time when his aim is to get some hours. If he wants QUALITY hours, then I agree with Henning he should rather skip the bo and get a 310 or something like that if he wants complex/multi time.
 
bikert said:
I find that very surprising. The interior of the Cirrus is anything but cheap.
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The early models looked like they were put together with a glue gun. The late models look like a high end sports car.
 
mohamedpac said:
Thanks for the offer! I'd love to go up with you sometime! I'll PM you so we can exchange info.

I took a look at RFC, and their rates are indeed very reasonable; I've sent them an email and am waiting on a response. However, I've read that there's over 100 members that fly 5 airplanes; I don't know much about flying clubs, but doesn't that seem like a high number? I'd be worried I wouldn't get to access the aircraft very much.
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In my several years of RFC membership, I very rarely had trouble scheduling a plane when I needed one, often on short (or no) notice. Holidays, of course, book up more. Modest planning yielded great results.

Of the 100 members, probably no more than 25 fly with any regularity. Just the nature of the game.

Oh, and with RFC, you also get absolutely great monthly meetings, typically with interesting speakers and presentations. Like, the member who flew the Concorde (as a poilot for the only US carrier ever to operate the Concorde); or the former CEO of Boeing Commercial Aircraft.

Best deal in flying, and I'd still be in, except my primary flying mission became regular trips to T82 for long weekends, and tying-up a Bonanza for three or four days while putting only 3 hours on it is abusing the other members (not against the rules, but still rude).
 
OP welcome to POA! I have time in both aircraft and much prefer flying the V35 Bonanza. They are safe as long as you get a proper checkout from a Bonanza instructor. Joining ABS the American Bonanza Society is well worth its weight in gold if you are serious about flying them. For Cirrus, also great aircraft with better avionics and the parachute safety feature quite nice but what you want to fly is the much faster SR22 model. Hand flying the Cirrus is not as much fun and the joystick trim wheel on the side stick is a pain to deal with. That said I would focus on building multi time in a twin if you plan to fly professionally as a career.
 
Go with the Bo. You want Vtail experience with cross winds.
 
A Cirrus is not a complex airplane. You'd need to rent something else to be complete.
 
SCCutler said:
In my several years of RFC membership, I very rarely had trouble scheduling a plane when I needed one, often on short (or no) notice. Holidays, of course, book up more. Modest planning yielded great results.

Of the 100 members, probably no more than 25 fly with any regularity. Just the nature of the game.

Oh, and with RFC, you also get absolutely great monthly meetings, typically with interesting speakers and presentations. Like, the member who flew the Concorde (as a poilot for the only US carrier ever to operate the Concorde); or the former CEO of Boeing Commercial Aircraft.

Best deal in flying, and I'd still be in, except my primary flying mission became regular trips to T82 for long weekends, and tying-up a Bonanza for three or four days while putting only 3 hours on it is abusing the other members (not against the rules, but still rude).
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Spike,

I sent you a private message a couple of days ago.
Also, I emailed RFC a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. Is there a number or someone I can contact?

By the way, I'm appreciating the Cirrus v. Bonanza debate I'm reading, please keep going with your thoughts! I have a demo flight in the Cirrus scheduled for next week but don't yet have a means of flying a demo flight in a Bonanza.

Thoughts on Bonanza V35A v. F33a? There are clubs in the area that have both.
 
Scott, GR, and FlyingRon, thanks for the comments as well.

Scott, I'm not planning on flying professionally, just GA as a hobby, may use it in the business world and in the future I see myself purchasing a quick single, so that's why I'm trying to decide which airplane is best to invest in here. Why do you think joining the Bonanza association is worth its weight in gold? Are you referring to type-specific training?

GR, why V tail experience in X winds? Is it dramatically different?

Flying, I'm willing to invest some money into this but don't want to throw it away. So since the Cirrus seems to be less expensive ($120/hr v. 160-200/hr for Bo's), I can see myself getting most of my commercial hours in that and just getting my complex time in a Cessna RG or something.
With the Bonanza, I feel that since it's so pricey, I may only fly half of the hours I'd fly with the Cirrus and fly a lot more in a Cessna 172, if that makes sense.
 
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mohamedpac said:
Scott, GR, and FlyingRon, thanks for the comments as well.

Scott, I'm not planning on flying professionally, just GA as a hobby, may use it in the business world and in the future I see myself purchasing a quick single, so that's why I'm trying to decide which airplane is best to invest in here. Why do you think joining the Bonanza association is worth its weight in gold? Are you referring to type-specific training?

GR, why V tail experience in X winds? Is it dramatically different?

Flying, I'm willing to invest some money into this but don't want to throw it away. So since the Cirrus seems to be less expensive ($120/hr v. 160-200/hr for Bo's), I can see myself getting most of my commercial hours in that and just getting my complex time in a Cessna RG or something.
With the Bonanza, I feel that since it's so pricey, I may only fly half of the hours I'd fly with the Cirrus and fly a lot more in a Cessna 172, if that makes sense.
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Bro, seriously. If you are "time building" quit looking at 172, Bo, Cirrus etc. you are throwing it away...Cash. That Cirrus is gonna own you at annual too. Ask 6PC.

Buy a 150/152 and fly it for $35 an hour. You can sell it for the same price you bought it for too! anything more than that and you are fooling yourself into buying more plane.
 
There is no value in 'time building' unless you are aiming for a flying career. Fly the plane that gets you where you want to go, gain experience not raw hours. If you have access to a variety of planes through clubs, fly all of them. The guy who can fly a Saratoga at gross and a J3 cub next without plonking a landing is the better pilot than the one who flies his pattern with a <1kt deviation in his bonanza day in day out.
 
weilke said:
There is no value in 'time building' unless you are aiming for a flying career. Fly the plane that gets you where you want to go, gain experience not raw hours. If you have access to a variety of planes through clubs, fly all of them. The guy who can fly a Saratoga at gross and a J3 cub next without plonking a landing is the better pilot than the one who flies his pattern with a <1kt deviation in his bonanza day in day out.
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I am working on my commercial rating and need 120 more hours by the summer. I am asking so I know to make a sound investment in a club since they all have different aircraft.


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mohamedpac said:
I am working on my commercial rating and need 120 more hours by the summer. I am asking so I know to make a sound investment in a club since they all have different aircraft.
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I am somewhat confused about what your goal is here. A commercial rating is really only useful if you want to fly for hire, instruct or use someone elses plane without paying for it. You have mentioned several times that you dont intend to fly for a living. If the goal is just to fly off 120hrs to get your commercial, spend 10hrs in the Bonanza to get the required complex time and rent a 152 to orbit the airport for 110hrs.


Other than that, fly the plane you like btter. Take some cross country trips that challenge your decision making skills. Fly many different planes. Get your instrument rating. Fly gliders. Fly taildraggers. Get a multi-rating. Solo a helicopter. All things that make you a better pilot. If you get to the point that you are confident enough to take a check in exchange for your flying, get the commercial rating.
 
Thanks for the advice weilke. I'm simply getting my commercial rating because I think it'll make me a better pilot, same reason I'm getting a multi rating even though I don't intend to fly a multi for a while.


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weilke said:
I am somewhat confused about what your goal is here. A commercial rating is really only useful if you want to fly for hire, instruct or use someone elses plane without paying for it. You have mentioned several times that you dont intend to fly for a living. If the goal is just to fly off 120hrs to get your commercial, spend 10hrs in the Bonanza to get the required complex time and rent a 152 to orbit the airport for 110hrs.


Other than that, fly the plane you like btter. Take some cross country trips that challenge your decision making skills. Fly many different planes. Get your instrument rating. Fly gliders. Fly taildraggers. Get a multi-rating. Solo a helicopter. All things that make you a better pilot. If you get to the point that you are confident enough to take a check in exchange for your flying, get the commercial rating.
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Maybe the OP wants to challenge himself?
 
mohamedpac said:
Spike,

I sent you a private message a couple of days ago.
Also, I emailed RFC a couple of days ago and haven't heard back. Is there a number or someone I can contact?

By the way, I'm appreciating the Cirrus v. Bonanza debate I'm reading, please keep going with your thoughts! I have a demo flight in the Cirrus scheduled for next week but don't yet have a means of flying a demo flight in a Bonanza.

Thoughts on Bonanza V35A v. F33a? There are clubs in the area that have both.
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Sorry, been buried. I have your contact info, will reach out after the plane's back in the air.

Let me check with RFC peeps, I am uncertain who to direct you to. Or, direct to you.

As for V35A vs. F33A, both awesome birds, fly essentially identically; I learned Bonanza in F33A at RFC (as well as a C33 and an A36 they used to have), and it was treated as same make and model for purposes of insurance when I bought the V35A. They fly close enough to the same as to make either a great choice.

The V35A in "PlaneSet" is a plane I know well, great bird, but you should know that it's for sale, and I bet it sells quickly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes, they have a few Warriors and Archers

There is no buy-in. You have to attend a new member briefing and then it's around $30 a month club dues. You can cancel anytime.

I cancelled my membership when I first moved away from San Diego, but rejoined this last year since my job has had me traveling to San Diego several times. I'll probably cancel again when this job ends.
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Well thanks for the info. Doesn't seem like a bad deal.

They have two Archers at SEE.. both GTN650 equipped:)

I assume the listed rates are dry? Looked around the site and can't find the answer to that.

EDIT - I found my answer. Rates are wet.

The clapped out piece of JUNK Archer(panel is also crap) here rents for $120...
 
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mohamedpac said:
Thanks for the advice weilke. I'm simply getting my commercial rating because I think it'll make me a better pilot, same reason I'm getting a multi rating even though I don't intend to fly a multi for a while.


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10 hrs of aerobatics will be of way higher value than 10 hrs of Commercial training at improving your pilot skills, do it in a Citabria or Decathelon and get a tail wheel endorsement as well. If you're not going to go fly for money, you have no need for a CP ticket, there's no insurance break like for an IR. Pick up an ME on your PP as a BFR sometime so you can log any chance multi time.

Here's a little thing to consider that was confirmed when I had my gear up. The higher your rating level, the higher standard you are held to when you make a mistake, and the greater the actions you must go through to get past it.
 
Henning said:
10 hrs of aerobatics will be of way higher value than 10 hrs of Commercial training at improving your pilot skills, do it in a Citabria or Decathelon and get a tail wheel endorsement as well. If you're not going to go fly for money, you have no need for a CP ticket, there's no insurance break like for an IR. Pick up an ME on your PP as a BFR sometime so you can log any chance multi time.



Here's a little thing to consider that was confirmed when I had my gear up. The higher your rating level, the higher standard you are held to when you make a mistake, and the greater the actions you must go through to get past it.
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Interesting. You're the first person to advise me on something like that. It's possible that I fly and receive compensation in the business I'll be working is another reason I'm looking to get commercial. It just seemed like a natural progression to me.


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jordane93 said:
Maybe the OP wants to challenge himself?
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I dont want to dissuade anyone from getting a commercial. I simply dont understand why he would want to waste $18000 on 'time building' if the endgame is not a job that requires the certificate.
 
weilke said:
I dont want to dissuade anyone from getting a commercial. I simply dont understand why he would want to waste $18000 on 'time building' if the endgame is not a job that requires the certificate.
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If he's got the disposable income, why not? He's probably going to fly more than 250 hours anyway so why not get started towards the commercial.
 
jordane93 said:
If he's got the disposable income, why not? He's probably going to fly more than 250 hours anyway so why not get started towards the commercial.
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That's what my view was. Frankly, commercial time building is a good excuse to go out and fly random places I wouldn't fly otherwise. I don't NEED the commercial now, but I want to fly and want to train, so I don't see why not. Aerobatic training seems interesting but maybe not what I'm looking for now.


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mohamedpac said:
Interesting. You're the first person to advise me on something like that. It's possible that I fly and receive compensation in the business I'll be working is another reason I'm looking to get commercial. It just seemed like a natural progression to me.


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Business use is typically covered under a PP if you are flying yourself, and is not a specified roll in your contract for compensation. If you are a salesman/engineer flying to a client site, that's legit even if you bring product with you *as long as there is no delivery charge!* If there is a delivery charge then it's a Pt. 135 flight and more than just you having a commercial is required. End of the day, It's not the FAA you have to be careful with in business use, it's the IRS.

Nothing wrong with getting a commercial if you need one, but f you don't, no need. Besides, after 10hrs aerobatics, the commercial maneuvers will be a snap.
 
I have money to spend on a sound investment in my flying, but not money to just burn.
Henning, in what way will aerobatics make me a better pilot? How dangerous is aero training?


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