Cirrus down - Bahamas

[k9medic]

https://ewnews.com/aaia-preliminary-report-engine-malfunction-caused-plane-crash

Looks like N675N. Chute deployed

 

[Rgbeard]

CAPS FTW!

 

[eman1200]

is it "Cirrii falling out of the sky" season or is that just ongoing?

 

[3393RP]

He's used up his luck for a while. The engine failed near the Bahamian island of Mayaguana, and he made it to land before running out of altitude. The destination was Eleuthera, and the flight from Puerto Rico to Mayaguana was about 330 miles over water. If he had passed Mayaguana, there's a heckuva lot of water between it and the surrounding islands, Eleuthera is another 350 miles.

He missed going swimming by ~that~ much.

 

[PaulS]

I would think he had a raft for that flight. Another good day, another life saved. Another pilot uninjured.

 

[hindsight2020]

Some folks minimize the deep blue by going the PR-DR coast hugging route to Puerto Plata, then doing the blue crossing to provo, which is only 100nm. The PR direct to the T/C is 330nm by contrast, and away from USCG and DR equivalent primary SAR rings.

Yeah, at first I told myself, old Rosie Roads to Governors Harbour is a decent haul. But then I plugged his N# to flightaware, nope, that's nada compared to what he did the week before lol.

Don't let your cats around this guy. Fascinating ORM. Likes his ironman legs that's for sure. 7.5h NJ to FL. Then literally goes VFR direct Opa Locka to Aguadilla at 17.5K on an unpressurized and NA airplane. That's 7 hours on a cannula, 300nm of which over deep blue. Given my antagonism with the CBP, I def support the decision to bypass eAPIS security theater nonsense, by going US to US. I'd just probably would have filed IFR, but to quote Ron Burgundy: "I'm not even mad..." I don't know if to shake my head or give this guy the Citizen Kane ovation.

On the accident sortie, looks like he pulls the same VFR stunt, crosses deep blue for 300nm at only 6.5k all the way until Turk, then does some sort of some sight seeing around Turks and C. Balloons up to 10K before popping the chute. Weird flight profile tbh.

If this guy didn't have a raft on board, given his predilection for playing russian roulette with deep blue crossings outside of primary SAR rings or radar, then I'd hope he doesn't have dependents. Better lucky than good!

 

[FormerHangie]

is it "Cirrii falling out of the sky" season or is that just ongoing?

And shouldn't @Tantalum be by shortly to give a "crummy old tech engine" rant?

 

[Tantalum]

And shouldn't @Tantalum be by shortly to give a "crummy old tech engine" rant?

At least Cirrus has the wherewithal to put parachutes in their planes.. everyone else just dies or has severe injuries. Plenty of planes crash, the Cirrus ones tend to get more attention because of the whole parachute and everyone-hates-it thing

We had a 182 just recently fall in the water off SBA presumably do to instrument incompetence, then another 182 down to ice and pilot incompetence, we had the Bo guy plow into the mountain at Telluride

Planes crash

Our POS engines don't help the cause.. but privately owned turbines crashed too, that TBM guy in New York comes to mind immediately, or that Casey Anthony PC12 who was busy fiddling with the autopilot instead of flying the airplane

It's a disappointing world.

 

[Tantalum]

Some folks minimize the deep blue by going the PR-DR coast hugging route to Puerto Plata, then doing the blue crossing to provo, which is only 100nm. The PR direct to the T/C is 330nm by contrast, and away from USCG and DR equivalent primary SAR rings.

Yeah, at first I told myself, old Rosie Roads to Governors Harbour is a decent haul. But then I plugged his N# to flightaware, nope, that's nada compared to what he did the week before lol.

Don't let your cats around this guy. Fascinating ORM. Likes his ironman legs that's for sure. 7.5h NJ to FL. Then literally goes VFR direct Opa Locka to Aguadilla at 17.5K on an unpressurized and NA airplane. That's 7 hours on a cannula, 300nm of which over deep blue. Given my antagonism with the CBP, I def support the decision to bypass eAPIS security theater nonsense, by going US to US. I'd just probably would have filed IFR, but to quote Ron Burgundy: "I'm not even mad..." I don't know if to shake my head or give this guy the Citizen Kane ovation.

On the accident sortie, looks like he pulls the same VFR stunt, crosses deep blue for 300nm at only 6.5k all the way until Turk, then does some sort of some sight seeing around Turks and C. Balloons up to 10K before popping the chute. Weird flight profile tbh.

If this guy didn't have a raft on board, given his predilection for playing russian roulette with deep blue crossings outside of primary SAR rings or radar, then I'd hope he doesn't have dependents. Better lucky than good!

Yes! Well said

Very little respect is given to long (or any) overwater trips.. you have no idea how many people here cruise over to Catalina without even batting an eye.. they go at 4,5 without any life vests and on hazy days out of sight of land

This guy was playing with fire. Wonder what caused the engine to quit

 

[k9medic]

S

Don't let your cats around this guy. Fascinating ORM. Likes his ironman legs that's for sure. 7.5h NJ to FL. Then literally goes VFR direct Opa Locka to Aguadilla at 17.5K on an unpressurized and NA airplane. That's 7 hours on a cannula, 300nm of which over deep blue. Given my antagonism with the CBP, I def support the decision to bypass eAPIS security theater nonsense, by going US to US. I'd just probably would have filed IFR, but to quote Ron Burgundy: "I'm not even mad..." I don't know if to shake my head or give this guy the Citizen Kane ovation.

I saw those legs. Does a Cirrus have the ability to do that? 84 gallons at 16-17gph doesn't make it look like that. Something might be off.

As for the open water stuff. I routinely fly to the Bahamas. I used to come off Ft. Pierce and fly to BERTH and then to MYAT (170 nm). My thought was I can't stand in 20ft. of water, so what does it matter if it's 2000ft. I then realized that I could mitigate a lot of risk by going down to BLUFI then West End over (179 nm). Sure I added 9nm and a total of 4 minutes but it's a lot closer to rescue if I need it.

 

[bnt83]

Our POS engines don't help the cause.
It's a disappointing world.

IDK what is about Cirrus but it sure seems like a 50 year old Lycoming O320 is more trustworthy than a big bore Conti at any age.

I would guess there are 5 to 10 times as many O-320s out there flying compared to 550 of any flavor.

Of course all of them quit if they run out gas.

 

[N1120A]

Uh, did the parachute actually save him? Or did it make him more likely to take a pretty poorly taken risk? That clown who doesn't get to go to national parks anymore ditched his Bonanza off the coast of San Francisco and survived, after all.

I saw those legs. Does a Cirrus have the ability to do that? 84 gallons at 16-17gph doesn't make it look like that. Something might be off.

As for the open water stuff. I routinely fly to the Bahamas. I used to come off Ft. Pierce and fly to BERTH and then to MYAT (170 nm). My thought was I can't stand in 20ft. of water, so what does it matter if it's 2000ft. I then realized that I could mitigate a lot of risk by going down to BLUFI then West End over (179 nm). Sure I added 9nm and a total of 4 minutes but it's a lot closer to rescue if I need it.

I'm not particularly familiar with a Cirrus POH, but are there settings in there where you can bring the plane down to 10 GPH? @Tantalum ?

 

[k9medic]

According to the POH, my 6/260 runs has 84 gallons and runs 12.2gph at 65%. At 55% I can get 10.4gph (8 hours) which comes out to 1000nm at 125kts.

I can't see a SR22 doing the same.

 

[wayne]

I saw those legs. Does a Cirrus have the ability to do that? 84 gallons at 16-17gph doesn't make it look like that. Something might be off.

As for the open water stuff. I routinely fly to the Bahamas. I used to come off Ft. Pierce and fly to BERTH and then to MYAT (170 nm). My thought was I can't stand in 20ft. of water, so what does it matter if it's 2000ft. I then realized that I could mitigate a lot of risk by going down to BLUFI then West End over (179 nm). Sure I added 9nm and a total of 4 minutes but it's a lot closer to rescue if I need it.

A 310 hp NA engine should not be burning 16-17 gph at 17.5k. The POH shows 17k - 171 kt @ 12.6 gph; ROP. I was flying an Angel Flight mission on Saturday in my SR22 at 11k LOP, ~170 kt at ~13 gph; thought I got a pic, but I don't see one on my phone. Here's a pic from another recent trip at 10k:

 

[Tantalum]

I'm not particularly familiar with a Cirrus POH, but are there settings in there where you can bring the plane down to 10 GPH? @Tantalum ?

I'm not aware of any cruise setting that gets you down to 10 GPH, however here are two excerpts from the SR22T G5 POH. Looks like 12.7 is the lowest the POH goes. Maybe an NA is different? This is turbo. However, if you notice the second table below the plane per the POH will do over 1,000nm if conditions are right. Either way this guy was definitely stretching his luck

did the parachute actually save him? Or did it make him more likely to take a pretty poorly taken risk?

Maybe.. but the same can be said for anything that advances you beyond PA28/C172 capabilities. Does O2, pressurization, turbo, FIKI, glass, nexrad, radar, etc. All these things add to the aircraft's capabilities, but also put you in that much more "hot water" if something fails

The Cirrus stuff gets attention, but we have a lot of people do stupid stunts in their planes. While not being smart, what this guy was doing was technically within the aircraft's operating envelope.. that stands in stark contrast to a pilot flying 182 into freezing rain or someone purposefully flying their naturally aspirated bonanza up into a box canyon. In the Bo's case, did his experience as an airline pilot and the lore of the Bo lure him into a bad situation?

it sure seems like a 50 year old Lycoming O320 is more trustworthy than a big bore Conti at any age

Would be interesting to seem some data behind this. The more complex something is the more things there are to break. Any turbo requires more carefully handling and maintenance

 

[Tantalum]

A 310 hp NA engine should not be burning 16-17 gph at 17.5k. The POH shows 17k - 171 kt @ 12.6 gph; ROP. I was flying an Angel Flight mission on Saturday in my SR22 at 11k LOP, ~170 kt at ~13 gph; thought I got a pic, but I don't see one on my phone. Here's a pic from another recent trip at 10k:

View attachment 92016

Why do we always seem to be fighting a headwind?? It's almost like the ski gods said "how dare you go 171 knots over the ground, here let me give you some headwind"

 

[wayne]

I'm not particularly familiar with a Cirrus POH, but are there settings in there where you can bring the plane down to 10 GPH? @Tantalum ?

Got a POH for a SR22 G2 that shows Best Economy settings up to 14k at 11.3 gph that gets 1,006 nm, taking 5.8 hours.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Why do we always seem to be fighting a headwind?? It's almost like the ski gods said "how dare you go 171 knots over the ground, here let me give you some headwind"

Life gives you a net headwind. A headwind is a headwind, and a wind from the side, as it requires you to fly a greater distance, is a headwind. Even some tailwinds, to a degree, are headwinds.

 

[N1120A]

A 310 hp NA engine should not be burning 16-17 gph at 17.5k. The POH shows 17k - 171 kt @ 12.6 gph; ROP. I was flying an Angel Flight mission on Saturday in my SR22 at 11k LOP, ~170 kt at ~13 gph; thought I got a pic, but I don't see one on my phone. Here's a pic from another recent trip at 10k:

]

Was this plane NA or T? 17500 is pretty high to fly in an NA plane.

I'm not aware of any cruise setting that gets you down to 10 GPH, however here are two excerpts from the SR22T G5 POH. Looks like 12.7 is the lowest the POH goes. Maybe an NA is different? This is turbo. However, if you notice the second table below the plane per the POH will do over 1,000nm if conditions are right. Either way this guy was definitely stretching his luck


Maybe.. but the same can be said for anything that advances you beyond PA28/C172 capabilities. Does O2, pressurization, turbo, FIKI, glass, nexrad, radar, etc. All these things add to the aircraft's capabilities, but also put you in that much more "hot water" if something fails

The Cirrus stuff gets attention, but we have a lot of people do stupid stunts in their planes. While not being smart, what this guy was doing was technically within the aircraft's operating envelope.. that stands in stark contrast to a pilot flying 182 into freezing rain or someone purposefully flying their naturally aspirated bonanza up into a box canyon. In the Bo's case, did his experience as an airline pilot and the lore of the Bo lure him into a bad situation?


Would be interesting to seem some data behind this. The more complex something is the more things there are to break. Any turbo requires more carefully handling and maintenance

It was a 210 that got iced at LBB, not a 182, but yeah. A strutted one at that. But that is just idiocy, not manufactured bravery.

A parachute isn't really much of an additional margin of safety over water, if any. Having more glide ratio actually is, something that we all know Cirrus isn't good at. The only thing that is really an added onboard safety device over water is a second engine.

Got a POH for a SR22 G2 that shows Best Economy settings up to 14k at 11.3 gph that gets 1,006 nm, taking 5.8 hours.

At 84 gallons, 11.3 GPH is right on the edge of legal day VFR.

 

[wayne]

At 84 gallons, 11.3 GPH is right on the edge of legal day VFR.

Yeah, I wouldn't plan for that. Maybe with a big tailwind, maybe. I wouldn't want to plan on sitting in the seat for 6 hours though either.

 

[N1120A]

Yeah, I wouldn't plan for that. Maybe with a big tailwind, maybe. I wouldn't want to plan on sitting in the seat for 6 hours though either.

I mean, I guess travel johns are a thing and there are ways to stretch out in a plane with a working autopilot and still be in reaching the controls, but yeah. I've got a good sized bladder, but I'm not looking to spend more than 4.5-5 hours in a SEP

 

[Tantalum]

What this guy needed for these kinds of trips is a turboprop or if the budget didn't allow for it then at least some kind of twin

 

[Wrench978]

Some folks minimize the deep blue by going the PR-DR coast hugging route to Puerto Plata, then doing the blue crossing to provo, which is only 100nm. The PR direct to the T/C is 330nm by contrast, and away from USCG and DR equivalent primary SAR rings.

Yeah, at first I told myself, old Rosie Roads to Governors Harbour is a decent haul. But then I plugged his N# to flightaware, nope, that's nada compared to what he did the week before lol.

... Then literally goes VFR direct Opa Locka to Aguadilla at 17.5K on an unpressurized and NA airplane. That's 7 hours on a cannula, 300nm of which over deep blue. Given my antagonism with the CBP, I def support the decision to bypass eAPIS security theater nonsense, by going US to US. I'd just probably would have filed IFR, but to quote Ron Burgundy: "I'm not even mad..." I don't know if to shake my head or give this guy the Citizen Kane ovation.
...

We are planning TJIG to F45 nonstop in the bonanza in a few weeks. about 6.5 hours. mostly to avoid having to stop for customs twice. If the winds arent in our favor, we wont be doing it nonstop. Im landing with at least 15 gallons on board. we will also have life vests and a raft.

We also wont be in o2 levels.

TJIG..PEBLO..GTK..ZQA..PBI..F45

 

[k9medic]

I might be going crazy but I thought you did not have to clear customs if you were only stopping for fuel in the Bahamas.

Puerto Rico to Palm Beach does not require a customs stop either.

 

[Racerx]

[QUOTE=" In the Bo's case, did his experience as an airline pilot and the lore of the Bo lure him into a bad situation?
/QUOTE]

Remember, he was in that canyon already earlier that day and went back. They were also detailing their trip on social media as they had gotten married. Did he do something dumb just for the social media attention? Regardless, he got it.

I'd also add that the jump from a Pa-28 to PA-32 would give people the security of pulling something off. For instance, mountain flying. I've never done it. I wouldn't in a pa-28 160. But would in a pa-32 300...not without taking a mountain flying course however. I still won't go over Lake Michigan. I'll use the corridor and go around. Doesn't add that much and the skyline is pretty nice.

 

[Tantalum]

however. I still won't go over Lake Michigan

Nope, I wouldn't either, but plenty do. Everyone accepts a different level of risk..

 

[Wrench978]

I might be going crazy but I thought you did not have to clear customs if you were only stopping for fuel in the Bahamas.

Puerto Rico to Palm Beach does not require a customs stop either.

Bahamas, yes. even just for fuel. Im trying to remember if I got a stamp in my passport when I stopped in Stella Maris. I definitely had to submit GenDecs.

the no customs thing is the only thing that makes sitting in a plane for 6+ hours PR to PBI

 

[hindsight2020]

the no customs thing is the only thing that makes sitting in a plane for 6+ hours PR to PBI

Agreed. eAPIS/ADCUS exigencies is for the birds....

 

[ahw01]

eAPIs is awesome

 

[k9medic]

I was surprised as well to find out that going from the USVI to mainland US that you had to clear customs.

 

[Wrench978]

I was surprised as well to find out that going from the USVI to mainland US that you had to clear customs.

That one almost got me here in PR. I happened to mention to a pilot coworker that we were going to St Croix for our first trip in the plane so we didnt have to deal with customs. He filled me in pretty quickly. Its customs "lite". Have to file eAPIS, but dont need a passport.