Cirrus 10K to repack

brien23

brien23

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Why does it cost $10,000 to repack a Cirrus parachute or $15,000 for a new one every 10 years?
 
A couple of things:
1) The pricing varies shop to shop. It has to be done at a service center and includes a fairly substantial amount of labor and different shops charge different prices - this can easily be a few AMU swing.
2) The amount of work that is required varies - which also affects the price. Early planes needed to access the chute by cutting a hole through the fuselage and then of course fixing the hole and paint work. This adds time and materials. G2 and newer have an access panel so there is no composite or paint work involved. Another variable is that somewhere around 2013/14 (IIRC) the factory switched from mechanical to electronic trigger/ignition. This means that a plane made before then that needs a repack has to have some extra work done to install the new system and tap into the #2 battery. This costs more. Newer planes (or old planes when they reach their next repack) will not have to incur these extra charges
3) It isn't exactly a trivial thing. The chutes are huge (55 ft or 65 ft diameter), they need to be professionally packed, the rockets are disposed of and replaced (and typically come with a ~$1000 hazmat shipping fee), the line cutters, etc... Plus the work of doing the install correctly.
4) Yes, Cirrus and BRS do make some margin. And it's not like you can skip and stay legal so there is a built in demand.
 
One reason I would not own a stupid Cirrus. I used to think they were cool but I actually hate those airplanes now! I would take a new 182 over a new Cirrus any day....
 
And add to Rudy's list cost of insurance coverage for any style of liability (such as product liability)
 
Per the photos a friend posted, the rocket also got bigger.

I forget why he said that was, but his old rocket and the new one side by side weren’t the same size.

No idea if it changed the price of it though.
 
I fly the older model. If you squint just right in the right lighting, you can kind of tell where they cut to do the repack.
When I first heard that I was dumbfounded.

If I were going to build anything, like right away I'd be all "and where are we going to put the access hatch?"
Maybe early on they didn't plan on repacks.

Also while I am at it, I would have put a hatch on the top for the rocket to come out. I would never have thought a rocket could accelerate an a half a foot of space enough to be able to blow a hole in the plane and drag the chute out.

Obviously its all been thought out, and it works but seems like the early models lack a tiny bit of forethought.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If I were going to build anything, like right away I'd be all "and where are we going to put the access hatch?"
Click to expand...

I am with ya on that. I was just stumped when I heard there was not a bolt on hatch, or a door like a door to get to the dip stick. Maybe the early cost was too much for an access hatch. Profit first.
 
Depending on your discretionary income, $10K for a repack might not be a huge deal. Considering the price of a new or newish Cirrus S22T, it's a pretty small fraction of the overall cost. If you're loaded and it gives you peace of mind, you might consider it a bargain.

Me? I feel pretty safe without a chute, given my plane's low Vso speed, plus the fact I tend to fly up high for better gliding distance...and fly in the wide open spaces of the Southwest. Plus, I'm plane-poor (but rich in experience!).

If I do anything that involves a rocket, it'll be a JATO bottle. :D
 
10 years seems pretty arbitrary. Any chance they extend the repack interval to 12 or 15 years? Is there some failure analysis around the 10 year number?
 
Brad Z said:
10 years seems pretty arbitrary. Any chance they extend the repack interval to 12 or 15 years? Is there some failure analysis around the 10 year number?
Click to expand...

It's almost certainly part of the certification conditions.
And I see no reason Cirrus would be motivated to spend money getting that changed, and the revenue stream to the service centres decreased.

Assuming $10,000 every 10 years, that's $83.33 per month. I expect that is not an unreasonable cost for those that see CAPS as an additional form of insurance.
 
Brad Z said:
10 years seems pretty arbitrary. Any chance they extend the repack interval to 12 or 15 years? Is there some failure analysis around the 10 year number?
Click to expand...

There was a comment in COPA about the 10 year period being due, at least partially, to the rocket itself. Apparently the fuel in the rocket has a half life and begins to degrade continually from the time it is made. It has been determined and apparently proven out, that after the ten year period the fuel can have degraded enough not to perform as originally designed.
 
Ain't exactly news there, sparky. That said, it was ten grand a decade ago, I imagine its higher now. And rockets don' exactly come cheap.
 
Yeah, it comes out to about $100/month or so. Part of the cost of ownership.
 
pigpenracing said:
One reason I would not own a stupid Cirrus. I used to think they were cool but I actually hate those airplanes now! I would take a new 182 over a new Cirrus any day....
Click to expand...

There are options. A Cessna 182 is a nice plane.

Personally I'd much rather have a SR22, but that's just my personal preference. We travel via general aviation so the extra 40 knots and wider cabin is really nice. Normally I'd say two doors is a plus, but a 182 has that also. :cool:

Plenty of choices out there.
 
Wow, when I was skydiving my repack was only $75 bucks! And they didn't have to cut open my rig to access the chute. Of course I was on a 180 day repack cycle so it adds up. $10K would keep me in repacks for 66 years!

And who designs a system you have to cut open and patch to access!?? That HAD to be an after the fact requirement.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I fly the older model. If you squint just right in the right lighting, you can kind of tell where they cut to do the repack.
When I first heard that I was dumbfounded.

If I were going to build anything, like right away I'd be all "and where are we going to put the access hatch?"
Maybe early on they didn't plan on repacks.

Also while I am at it, I would have put a hatch on the top for the rocket to come out. I would never have thought a rocket could accelerate an a half a foot of space enough to be able to blow a hole in the plane and drag the chute out.

Obviously its all been thought out, and it works but seems like the early models lack a tiny bit of forethought.
Click to expand...

No bucks, no Buck Rogers baby! What a great movie.

 
Brad Z said:
10 years seems pretty arbitrary. Any chance they extend the repack interval to 12 or 15 years? Is there some failure analysis around the 10 year number?
Click to expand...

Maybe,
At the most recent annual, we were notified the line cutters were increased from every 3 years to every 6 years.
 
GRG55 said:
It's almost certainly part of the certification conditions.
And I see no reason Cirrus would be motivated to spend money getting that changed, and the revenue stream to the service centres decreased.

Assuming $10,000 every 10 years, that's $83.33 per month. I expect that is not an unreasonable cost for those that see CAPS as an additional form of insurance.
Click to expand...
Of course it's part of certification, but life-limited items are frequently extended or decreased after it has been certified. Airframes are a great example, and the motivation to extend the life of an Airframe can apply to the chute as well.

I always scratch my head when I see a nice round number like 10 years. It generally tells me the engineers knew it should be limited, but 20 sounded too long and they would scare off customers at 5. Generally over time they should be able to remove the old equipment and test to determine how degradated they are, and adjust the 10 year number as necessary.

SixPapaCharlie said:
Maybe,
At the most recent annual, we were notified the line cutters were increased from every 3 years to every 6 years.
Click to expand...

Well that's good news.
 
brien23 said:
Why does it cost $10,000 to repack a Cirrus parachute or $15,000 for a new one every 10 years?
Click to expand...
If the price is up, well consider inflation. And I seriously doubt any Cirrus owner would mind paying 10 or 15k to maintain a safety feature, which was one of the premise they bought the airplane in the first place.
 
Cirrus = Chinese owned. China = close to North Korea. North Korea = has brand new big shiny rockets. Cirrus = keeping up with neighbors.
 
Is the chute repack cost comparable to the insurance premium a retractable pays over ten years? Plus their increased annuals/mx?
 
If you fly 10 hours a month, 15k is $12.50 added to the hourly flying expenses over a 10 yr period.
 
I probably shouldn't have said "premium". Confusing. I'm thinking the incrremental costs that a retract pays. To get comparable performance to Cirrus you're usually looking at a retract. Thus the comparison.

What's insurance on a 182 fixed vs RG?
 
trenton said:
I probably shouldn't have said "premium". Confusing. I'm thinking the incrremental costs that a retract pays. To get comparable performance to Cirrus you're usually looking at a retract. Thus the comparison.

What's insurance on a 182 fixed vs RG?
Click to expand...

I can assure you without question that any Cirrus with performance comparable to my retractable twin will carry a higher insurance premium (for comparable coverage) than I do now.
 
were is mully these days ,sure he knows more than most on this subject
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I fly the older model. If you squint just right in the right lighting, you can kind of tell where they cut to do the repack.
When I first heard that I was dumbfounded.

If I were going to build anything, like right away I'd be all "and where are we going to put the access hatch?"
Maybe early on they didn't plan on repacks.

Also while I am at it, I would have put a hatch on the top for the rocket to come out. I would never have thought a rocket could accelerate an a half a foot of space enough to be able to blow a hole in the plane and drag the chute out.

Obviously its all been thought out, and it works but seems like the early models lack a tiny bit of forethought.
Click to expand...
Do they not give you a hatch when you do the repack so you don't have to cut again ?
 
Lindberg said:
Do they not give you a hatch when you do the repack so you don't have to cut again ?
Click to expand...

On the G1 I suspect that "opening" is structural and therefore has to be "repaired" equivalent to original after the repack operation. The later models with the removable hatch probably have some material changes to the fuselage layup to carry the shear loads and any tension/compression bending loads in the area of the opening.
 
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