Chicago to Alaska via Piper Arrow

The "Trench" itself is about 300 miles of what I consider horribly boring scenery, but is also about 500 miles from fuel stop to fuel stop (Watson Lake to Prince George). With so much variable weather throughout that region I always like to have enough fuel to get back to my departure airport even if just short of the destination and that certainly isn't possible in along the Trench. There are gravel strips where you can land and wait, but that's fraught with its own problems. On my second trip from Vermont I didn't even consider the Trench or the coast route. The Alcan is just so much less hostile with many more options to deal with bad weather or mechanical trouble, IMHO.
 
dbahn said:
The "Trench" itself is about 300 miles of what I consider horribly boring scenery, but is also about 500 miles from fuel stop to fuel stop (Watson Lake to Prince George). ...
Click to expand...
Not quite, there is Mackenzie CYZY in between, which shortens the leg to 340 nm.
 
MRC01 said:
Not quite, there is Mackenzie CYZY in between, which shortens the leg to 340 nm.
Click to expand...

Oh. I don't think they had fuel there when I flew it years ago (or I would have stopped there) but that may be different now.

(Although there are lots of airports in Alaska the thought of running out of fuel while dodging weather made me very cautious.)
 
dbahn said:
Oh. I don't think they had fuel there when I flew it years ago (or I would have stopped there) but that may be different now. ...
Click to expand...
They did in 2018 when I was there. After landing, the airport looks closed. Call the number in the book and the "aerodrome operator" arrives in less than 10 minutes to fuel your plane, give you and your passengers free ice cream cones, and PIREPS from anyone else who might have flown through that day.
 
MRC01 said:
Call the number in the book and the "aerodrome operator" arrives in less than 10 minutes to fuel your plane, give you and your passengers free ice cream cones
Click to expand...
I wasn't planning to fly to Alaska soon, but now that there's free ice cream being handed out...
 
Completed
1) KUGN-Y19 615nm 40gal fuel (4.75/gal)
->Decent FBO with a shower
->Fuel price did increase after we fueled up

2) Y19-KGTF 430nm 34gal fuel (6.95/gal)
->Staying the night in Great Falls
->Great Falls was a little blah, we did some walking and the river was a little dirty (I guess I’m more of a lakes person)

3) KGTF-8S1 115nm
->23S airport en-route looks beautiful, was a little nervous en-route due to mountain altitudes nearby but if you follow the highway you could go at 6500’ (another guy was at 6500’, we were aiming for 8500’ with significant up/downdrafts)
->Airport has 3 crew cars (old) and fuel pump was NOTAMed out of order (guessing they are waiting for a fuel delivery), crew cars have a 24 hour policy which is pretty generous
->Landing was beautiful! (The mountains and lake)
->Camping the night here
 
Have a great trip, lots of daylight to work with.

My trip up was back in 92, Cherokee 140, 2 of us. I don’t remember any problems with fuel/leg distances. Once further North in Canada I was mostly near the Al-Can Hwy. The main lodging was a tent, maybe a hotel room every few days. A few places were set up to shower in the FBO, Whitehorse & another or 2 come to mind.

One of my obstacles back in the day was smoke from fires, able to get around & above it for the most part. I always kept an airport in the back pocket. On the way back, Beaver Creek to Whitehorse, I cried Uncle(wx) & ended up in Silver City, south end of Kluane Lake. It was one of those unplanned stops that works out fine & was very memorable. After chatting with the few at the airport we made it to a nearby B&B, right on the shoreline.

Yes, those fill ups in Canada may get a little costly, much more memorable than shoehorned into the back of an airliner. The trip up & back is the main event, not so much the sights once you get there.
 
Domenick said:
Doh! Where's the head slap emoji when you need it!
Click to expand...


giphy.gif
 
Completed
1) KUGN-Y19 615nm 40gal fuel (4.75/gal)
->Decent FBO with a shower
->Fuel price did increase after we fueled up

2) Y19-KGTF 430nm 34gal fuel (6.95/gal)
->Staying the night in Great Falls
->Great Falls was a little blah, we did some walking and the river was a little dirty (I guess I’m more of a lakes person)

3) KGTF-8S1 115nm
->23S airport en-route looks beautiful, was a little nervous en-route due to mountain altitudes nearby but if you follow the highway you could go at 6500’ (another guy was at 6500’, we were aiming for 8500’ with significant up/downdrafts)
->Airport has 3 crew cars (old) and fuel pump was NOTAMed out of order (guessing they are waiting for a fuel delivery), crew cars have a 24 hour policy which is pretty generous
->Landing was beautiful! (The mountains and lake)
->Camping the night here

4) 8S1-23S 43nm
->Grass runway, with some airpark homes, with a campsite on-site with outdoor tables, BBQ grill, BBQ pit, 2 bicycles with big wheel bicycles, and a minibus crew car.
->Stayed the night / camped out, it was COLD!
->It’s beautiful!

Planned
5) 23S-S27
->Booking a hotel for a good shower and the dogs
->Going on an afternoon fly fishing trip (first time)

*mileages are those provided by Foreflight, likely those are direct, and do not consider the actual route flown.
 
Completed
1) KUGN-Y19 615nm 40gal fuel (4.75/gal)
->Decent FBO with a shower
->Fuel price did increase after we fueled up

2) Y19-KGTF 430nm 34gal fuel (6.95/gal)
->Staying the night in Great Falls
->Great Falls was a little blah, we did some walking and the river was a little dirty (I guess I’m more of a lakes person)

3) KGTF-8S1 115nm
->23S airport en-route looks beautiful, was a little nervous en-route due to mountain altitudes nearby but if you follow the highway you could go at 6500’ (another guy was at 6500’, we were aiming for 8500’ with significant up/downdrafts)
->Airport has 3 crew cars (old) and fuel pump was NOTAMed out of order (guessing they are waiting for a fuel delivery), crew cars have a 24 hour policy which is pretty generous
->Landing was beautiful! (The mountains and lake)
->Camping the night here

4) 8S1-23S 43nm
->Grass runway, with some airpark homes, with a campsite on-site with outdoor tables, BBQ grill, BBQ pit, 2 bicycles with big wheel bicycles, and a minibus crew car.
->Stayed the night / camped out, it was COLD!
->It’s beautiful!

5) 23S-S27 69nm
->Booking a hotel for a good shower and the dogs
->Going on an afternoon fly fishing trip (first time)

6) S27-58S 13nm
->Whitefish Montana, very clean city
->Short grass field strip (2560’)
->Camped on the field next to the airplane, had some rain, wasn’t the most enjoyable as no amenities
->Dog park, skateboard park, BMX bicycle park across the street from the field
->Several bicycles in the airport shed for pilots to use
->Tie-down spaces with some chains provided but I didn’t use them
->Downtown is a bit of a hike but a nice place to check out, the lake is beautiful!
->On take-off, I aborted my takeoff as I wasn’t liking the airspeed, turned around and took off the opposite direction (winds calm), it required a good pull up and take off to the right to avoid trees.

7) 58S-KSZT 90nm 36gal (5.95/gal)
->Nice FBO, SS100LL was $5.95/gal, overnight tie-downs $6/night or $30/month, crew car 3 hour limit but someone else took it so we Uber’ed to a hotel.
->Nice city, a bit busier

*mileages are those provided by Foreflight, likely those are direct, and do not consider the actual route flown.
 
In one of those pictures, someone flew a nosedragger to a taildragger party. ;)
Great pics, glad you made it to AK - a bucket list landing for sure.
 
Completed
1) KUGN-Y19 615nm 40gal fuel (4.75/gal)
->Decent FBO with a shower
->Fuel price did increase after we fueled up

2) Y19-KGTF 430nm 34gal fuel (6.95/gal)
->Staying the night in Great Falls
->Great Falls was a little blah, we did some walking and the river was a little dirty (I guess I’m more of a lakes person)

3) KGTF-8S1 115nm
->23S airport en-route looks beautiful, was a little nervous en-route due to mountain altitudes nearby but if you follow the highway you could go at 6500’ (another guy was at 6500’, we were aiming for 8500’ with significant up/downdrafts)
->Airport has 3 crew cars (old) and fuel pump was NOTAMed out of order (guessing they are waiting for a fuel delivery), crew cars have a 24 hour policy which is pretty generous
->Landing was beautiful! (The mountains and lake)
->Camping the night here

4) 8S1-23S 43nm
->Grass runway, with some airpark homes, with a campsite on-site with outdoor tables, BBQ grill, BBQ pit, 2 bicycles with big wheel bicycles, and a minibus crew car.
->Stayed the night / camped out, it was COLD!
->It’s beautiful!

5) 23S-S27 69nm
->Booking a hotel for a good shower and the dogs
->Going on an afternoon fly fishing trip (first time)

6) S27-58S 13nm
->Whitefish Montana, very clean city
->Short grass field strip (2560’)
->Camped on the field next to the airplane, had some rain, wasn’t the most enjoyable as no amenities
->Dog park, skateboard park, BMX bicycle park across the street from the field
->Several bicycles in the airport shed for pilots to use
->Tie-down spaces with some chains provided but I didn’t use them
->Downtown is a bit of a hike but a nice place to check out, the lake is beautiful!
->On take-off, I aborted my takeoff as I wasn’t liking the airspeed, turned around and took off the opposite direction (winds calm), it required a good pull up and take off to the right to avoid trees.

7) 58S-KSZT 90nm 36gal (5.95/gal)
->Nice FBO, SS100LL was $5.95/gal, overnight tie-downs $6/night or $30/month, crew car 3 hour limit but someone else took it so we Uber’ed to a hotel.
->Nice city, a bit busier

8) KSZT-3W7 103nm
->Crew car on the field, went for lunch

9) 3W7-KCLM 178nm
->Stayed the night
->Self service fuel, overnight crew car available
->Nice FBO, we talked about the next route to Ketchikan, fuel settings and weather patterns, maximizing range, plan to land in Canada if winds/wx changed

10) KCLM-PAKT 531nm
->Airport is on an island, took a ferry across ($6/person)
->Tons of clouds over the mountains/terrain
->Very little radio reception en-route
->Literally NO ADSB-in reception (unable to obtain wx updates)
->Lots of clouds over the ocean, inland was sky clear visibility over 100 miles
->Quite a few boats/fisherman along the way, beaches, houses, some remote areas

*mileages are those provided by Foreflight, likely those are direct, and do not consider the actual route flown.
 
mandm said:
...
10) KCLM-PAKT 531nm
Click to expand...
When flying through Canadian airspace but not landing at a Canadian airport, what is the protocol?
I've flown to Canada & AK but always did the usual procedures with EAPIS, Customs, etc.
 
MRC01 said:
When flying through Canadian airspace but not landing at a Canadian airport, what is the protocol?
I've flown to Canada & AK but always did the usual procedures with EAPIS, Customs, etc.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what the minimum requirements are (whether can be on just flight following, flight plan or?), but at KCLM I was told to file a flight plan (VFR or IFR, via foreflight), which I did and activated it, then you’ll lose comms. When I got to Ketchikan, it’s a SATR airspace, so I’m not sure if there is a tower or what (I read about reporting points but the SATR is not as clear as say NYC’s), I got the wx on ATIS, reported inbound to the airport frequency, someone came on and informed me about traffic and I landed. Given ceilings were marginal, I’m landing regardless and not risking anything. That was one I was happy to have landed. Weather was basically perfect until Ketchikan, which was marginal. The guy on the radio said he closed my flight plan but then later foreflight popped up a note saying I’m overdue and I closed it on foreflight as well. I’m not sure how well sync’ed the systems are.

Now since I didn’t cross any ADIZ, I’m even wondering if you could do it without a flight plan (of course not recommended). I have a portable satellite beacon so if I survive an off airport landing that’s going to be more important than a flight plan (imo).

Canada flight rules vary slightly, I believe they get more restrictive with VFR on top, flying at night, and when in uncontrolled fields the reporting points become mandatory.
 
mandm said:
Airport is on an island, took a ferry across ($6/person)
Click to expand...

Too bad the ''bridge to nowhere'':rolleyes: fell through....woulda saved all that money to spend on fuel...:lol:

When flying the southeast, look for boat gatherings. That is where the whales are.
 
mandm said:
I am not sure what the minimum requirements are (whether can be on just flight following, flight plan or?), but at KCLM I was told to file a flight plan (VFR or IFR, via foreflight), which I did and activated it, then you’ll lose comms. ...
Click to expand...
Was that an international flight plan? I'm wondering what the Canadians do when they see you on radar flying through their airspace. If you were landing in Canada, they'd know because you'd call Customs ahead of time, file an international flight plan, etc. But if you're not landing in Canada, just flying through their airspace, how do they get notified about you?

Also Canada recommends monitoring and periodic position reporting on 126.7 when flying VFR.

PS: the general rule I learned: don't cross an international border unless you are on an international flight plan and squawking a discrete code. I'm curious whether flying over without landing should also follow this rule.
 
Last edited:
It’s a foreflight flight plan. I got a code to squawk too. I don’t think there’s anything discrete about the code? :D
 
mandm said:
It’s a foreflight flight plan. I got a code to squawk too. I don’t think there’s anything discrete about the code? :D
Click to expand...
When logging into FlightAware to follow your legs, on the leg from KCLM to PAKT, you are only being recognized on the first 30 minutes or so and then the last 30 minutes. Usually when I’m on flight following in the CONUS, the entire leg will show up in the flight log until told to squawk VFR. Were you on flight following talking to ATC, whether US or Canadian? It don’t think your plan was IFR.

Were position reports being made enroute, and how much fuel was left in your tanks on arrival? Do you have 48 gallons useful like in my Archer2?
 
Last edited:
mandm said:
The guy on the radio said he closed my flight plan but then later foreflight popped up a note saying I’m overdue and I closed it on foreflight as well. I’m not sure how well sync’ed the systems are.
Click to expand...

"The guy on the radio" in Ketchikan was probably from Flight Service. As in REAL Flight Service, from the FAA, not some subcontractor. We still have the real deal! While you're up there, use it; call the humans on the phone -- they are super friendly, and they want their services to be used. Make Pireps.

Alaska's Flight Service's flight plans are -- as far as I can tell -- in a completely different computer system than the ones administered by Leidos or whoever for the lower 48. My guess is that as soon as you filed it, the Alaska destination put your flight plan in one of those "oh, we gotta send this to someone else's computers" situations, just as if filing to Canada. So Ketchikan Guy knew about it, and was able to close it. But having closed it, Foreflight (which doesn't know about Alaska Flight Service) didn't get the memo in the reverse direction.

I once forgot to close an Alaska flight plan after crossing into Canada, and couldn't get ahold of them on the radio. So I called WX-BRIEF and got the lower-48 service... they were UNABLE to close the flight plan, or even to see it on their computers.

mandm said:
Canada flight rules vary slightly, I believe they get more restrictive with VFR on top, flying at night, and when in uncontrolled fields the reporting points become mandatory.
Click to expand...

Calling on the radio at an uncontrolled field is only required if the airport is what they call a "Mandatory Frequency" or MF airport. You can tell these from the little "M" next to the frequency, on the chart.

Welcome to Alaska!
I've never been to Ketchikan... someday...
 
MRC01 said:
True. Yet I never noticed it in the lower US. It's much more common in Alaska.
Click to expand...
In the lower 48, the ICAO codes all start with K, and we don’t share that with other countries. In Alaska, the P prefixed ICAO codes are shared with much of the Pacific. So the chance of a conflict is higher.

There are also the ITA codes, which can also be different. So it’s possible for one airport to have 3 different letter codes.
 
mandm said:
Arrived in Sitka, Alaska (PASI) yesterday

Anyone know why the airports have 2 identifiers? Sitka for example is SIT and PASI.
Click to expand...

The reason for 'SIT' is marking of baggage and freight. Alaska is served by many Air-Taxis and they use the common easier to understand SIT, JNU or KTN so the ground crews and passengers don't have to memorize PASI, PAJN or PAKT.
 
Klaus M said:
The reason for 'SIT' is marking of baggage and freight. Alaska is served by many Air-Taxis and they use the common easier to understand SIT, JNU or KTN so the ground crews and passengers don't have to memorize PASI, PAJN or PAKT.
Click to expand...

Yep, SIT is the mail code and PASI is the airport code. Ouzinkie AK, for instance has an airport code of 4K5, but a mail code of KOZ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top