Chevy Bolt?

You know I am a Ford dealer, so here comes the shameless plug for the Fusion energi! It's been a great car for us, we sell a ton of them, mostly used due to the price point, but pretty trouble free, probably worth looking at if a larger car is ok. The reason so many of the electrics are in California is the emissions laws, the manufacturers sell them at a loss to keep being able to sell the cars and trucks that people want to buy. :)
 
N747JB said:
You know I am a Ford dealer, so here comes the shameless plug for the Fusion energi! It's been a great car for us, we sell a ton of them, mostly used due to the price point, but pretty trouble free, probably worth looking at if a larger car is ok. The reason so many of the electrics are in California is the emissions laws, the manufacturers sell them at a loss to keep being able to sell the cars and trucks that people want to buy. :)
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Is it cancelled next year like the other small cars, or are the EVs and Hybrids continuing?

I believe that’s what @flyingcheesehead leased waiting on his Tesla someday when he has white hair. Ha. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Is it cancelled next year like the other small cars, or are the EVs and Hybrids continuing?

I believe that’s what @flyingcheesehead leased waiting on his Tesla someday when he has white hair. Ha. :)
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It's not just small cars, it's going away like ALL of Fords cars (including Lincoln) except the Mustang and some Chinese import car. Ford has admitted defeat at selling cars in America. Instead they're getting into the bicycle business.
 
Dav8or said:
It's not just small cars, it's going away like ALL of Fords cars (including Lincoln) except the Mustang and some Chinese import car. Ford has admitted defeat at selling cars in America. Instead they're getting into the bicycle business.
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They’re keeping a couple. @N747JB would know for sure what’s staying and what’s going, unless that’s still under internal debate. I don’t think it is, but everyone needs EVs and Hybrids in their fleets to meet the EPA standards for fleetwide economy numbers, and they have to sell.

I think it’s kinda sad they’re exiting. Leaving the small sedan market to the likes of the Chevy Cruze is kinda pitiful. Ford had better offerings, not that the Cruze is terrible in that market, but you could upfit a Ford small car better if you wanted a small sedan and creature comforts. But sedans are out of style currently.

I do see where that market is highly saturated now with Korean brands, both Kia and Hyundai who have really upped their game in the past few years. If they sell all the econoboxes then the manufacturers who need small four bangers to sell so their fleet EPA number stays low, get driven out of the market. Dumb. Really dumb.

So Ford’s gonna make trucks and SUVs. Makes sense in a sick way.

What’s this about bicycles?
 
N747JB said:
You know I am a Ford dealer, so here comes the shameless plug for the Fusion energi! It's been a great car for us, we sell a ton of them, mostly used due to the price point, but pretty trouble free, probably worth looking at if a larger car is ok. The reason so many of the electrics are in California is the emissions laws, the manufacturers sell them at a loss to keep being able to sell the cars and trucks that people want to buy. :)
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I have one of these, bought it four years ago, and it now has 55,000 miles. I was a little worried about all the technology stuff but so far the only repair it needed was the light up ring around the charge port, which was handled under warranty. It's a very nice car, very smooth and quiet, and inexpensive to operate. The battery range is short, only 19 miles, but since I can charge at work and its 14 miles each way, I can go weeks without the engine starting. When you do want to go on a highway trip, you've got the engine and can go as far as you need to.
 
bflynn said:
it is new car time. Because I have never owned a new car before, the spouse is pushing for me to get a new car. I may still not do that and buy used anyway (‘72 Beetle?), but I started looking and the Bolt has some interesting things going on.

Does anyone with direct experience have feedback on the car?
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We just bought the wife a 2015 bmw i3. Love it. Like new way under 20k. It also has a backup generator to reduce range anxiety. Fun, compact. 0-60 in 6.x seconds. Good car so far


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The moron's in charge at Ford, and I apologize to morons everywhere, held the stupidest press conference in the history of automotive history! Instead of saying what they told the dealers 2 days later, which was as follows: We are concentrating our new product development on the SUV and CUV market, we are retaining the Mustang and the Focus replacement, this will take place over the next several years! The way to say it if you are dumb enough to tell the world your plans is: "We see a dramatic shift towards the CUV and SUV in the next few years and we are prepared with some of the finest ones available and we'll be rolling them out over the next 3 years!"First of all, why are they telling the competition what their plans are for the next 3 years??? Did anyone notice Toyota or Chevrolet giving details of their next 3 years production?? Complete idiots!
That being said, it's all a CAFE ploy, at least in my mind. SUV and CUV are considered trucks and held to a lower mileage standard than cars, it's not that big of a deal, these new products will be surprisingly car like, but still qualify as CUV's or SUV's.
denverpilot said:
They’re keeping a couple. @N747JB would know for sure what’s staying and what’s going, unless that’s still under internal debate. I don’t think it is, but everyone needs EVs and Hybrids in their fleets to meet the EPA standards for fleetwide economy numbers, and they have to sell.

I think it’s kinda sad they’re exiting. Leaving the small sedan market to the likes of the Chevy Cruze is kinda pitiful. Ford had better offerings, not that the Cruze is terrible in that market, but you could upfit a Ford small car better if you wanted a small sedan and creature comforts. But sedans are out of style currently.

I do see where that market is highly saturated now with Korean brands, both Kia and Hyundai who have really upped their game in the past few years. If they sell all the econoboxes then the manufacturers who need small four bangers to sell so their fleet EPA number stays low, get driven out of the market. Dumb. Really dumb.

So Ford’s gonna make trucks and SUVs. Makes sense in a sick way.

What’s this about bicycles?
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denverpilot said:
They’re keeping a couple.
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They are keeping 1.5

The Focus Active expected to be sort of half car half SUV. It's supposedly going to be lifted with roof rails and optional AWD. Think Subaru Crosstek.

What’s this about bicycles?
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Ford Go Bike.

bikes_deborahchen_staff-copy-900x580.jpg
 
bflynn said:
Yah, the price. 40k gives a 6 year loan at $700/mon?!! Yikes, at that price there are a lot of cars I like better. Or a car and an airplane.

Maybe that paisley purple beetle isn't so bad.
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I got mine, an LT with a few options out the door with tax (California tax no less!), license, fees, etc for $39,000 and change. Then I got $10,500 in tax credit and rebates. The federal tax credit is still in effect, so check out your state and local incentives. Also many utility companies give small incentives as well.
 
I think that’s what we’re getting, they never show us dealers until it’s almost in the showroom!
Dav8or said:
Yes, the Focus Active. A single body style only. Imported straight from the hard working folks in China.

l6jvvgaayjinp5dwlrb7.jpg
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A hangar mate has a Bolt and really likes it. He got a smoking good lease on it, and has solar at home, so he has very little vehicle expenses.
 
FormerHangie said:
I have one of these, bought it four years ago, and it now has 55,000 miles. I was a little worried about all the technology stuff but so far the only repair it needed was the light up ring around the charge port, which was handled under warranty. It's a very nice car, very smooth and quiet, and inexpensive to operate. The battery range is short, only 19 miles, but since I can charge at work and its 14 miles each way, I can go weeks without the engine starting. When you do want to go on a highway trip, you've got the engine and can go as far as you need to.
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It seems to work well for you, which is great. However, a 19 mile range sounds more like a coffee room joke than something a car company would actually do :eek::eek:. Doesn't seem like it'd be a huge deal to at least make it about 50 miles like the volt.
 
Matthew K said:
It seems to work well for you, which is great. However, a 19 mile range sounds more like a coffee room joke than something a car company would actually do :eek::eek:. Doesn't seem like it'd be a huge deal to at least make it about 50 miles like the volt.
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Actually it is a huge deal. Battery size and aerodynamics = range. In the case of the Volt, it was a purpose built platform and body, optimized to get that range. In the case of the Fusion Energi it is a gas powered car that was converted to be a plug in hybrid. This means there is not much space to put a battery pack and that limits the size it can be. Second, the body shape, while by no means horrible in the wind tunnel, was also styled to look appealing and traditionally sedan like. The wind tunnel prefers the Prius shape.
 
Dav8or said:
Actually it is a huge deal. Battery size and aerodynamics = range. In the case of the Volt, it was a purpose built platform and body, optimized to get that range. In the case of the Fusion Energi it is a gas powered car that was converted to be a plug in hybrid. This means there is not much space to put a battery pack and that limits the size it can be. Second, the body shape, while by no means horrible in the wind tunnel, was also styled to look appealing and traditionally sedan like. The wind tunnel prefers the Prius shape.
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I agree with your points. However, the best they could do was fit a 7.6kwh battery? Perhaps I'm asking too much from a car originally designed as a pure gas burner, and I understand there are quite considerable efficiency increases just from switching things over to electric, but jeez 7.6kwh & 19 miles from a straight statistical point seems abysmal at best.
 
For the OP, if you decide to purchase an all-electric vehicle, IMO the Bolt is the best choice.

The range and cost give it an advantage. The fact there is a nationwide service network stands by itself as a reason to avoid buying a Tesla, as if that car's $60K price wasn't enough of a negative.
 
Matthew K said:
I agree with your points. However, the best they could do was fit a 7.6kwh battery? Perhaps I'm asking too much from a car originally designed as a pure gas burner, and I understand there are quite considerable efficiency increases just from switching things over to electric, but jeez 7.6kwh & 19 miles from a straight statistical point seems abysmal at best.
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Well, batteries are expensive and I'm sure the business case for this car meant hitting particular price point as well.
 
Matthew K said:
I agree with your points. However, the best they could do was fit a 7.6kwh battery? Perhaps I'm asking too much from a car originally designed as a pure gas burner, and I understand there are quite considerable efficiency increases just from switching things over to electric, but jeez 7.6kwh & 19 miles from a straight statistical point seems abysmal at best.
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Well when the internal combustion engine does kick in you still get all the benefits of a traditional gas-electric hybrid such as regenerative braking like the 1st and 2nd generation Prius. Since it's essentially a Ford Fusion Hybrid to which they attached a plug, I'll bet it gets around the same gas-only MPG.
 
Matthew K said:
I agree with your points. However, the best they could do was fit a 7.6kwh battery? Perhaps I'm asking too much from a car originally designed as a pure gas burner, and I understand there are quite considerable efficiency increases just from switching things over to electric, but jeez 7.6kwh & 19 miles from a straight statistical point seems abysmal at best.
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You have to remember that the Energi model of the Fusion was designed in the early part of this decade when batteries were quite expensive. Also, since the Fusion doesn't have any dedicated battery storage space, as it is the high voltage battery takes up half the trunk.

Whether that works for you or not depends on your mission profile. It's 12-14 miles between home and work, and I have charging there, so most weeks the engine doesn't run unless I go somewhere to my normal home/work/store routine. The last time I bought gasoline was sometime in May, and I've used half a tank, which is about six gallons. In that time I've covered 2105 miles. In the mixed highway/suburban driving I do in hybrid mode, you could figure 40 MPG, so that's about 240 hybrid miles and 1750 EV miles. in my case, having a bigger battery would barely move the needle. If I had a Volt, maybe an additional 100 miles would have been EV.

asicer said:
Well when the internal combustion engine does kick in you still get all the benefits of a traditional gas-electric hybrid such as regenerative braking like the 1st and 2nd generation Prius. Since it's essentially a Ford Fusion Hybrid to which they attached a plug, I'll bet it gets around the same gas-only MPG.
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Pretty much. I find that on the rare occasion I drive in town using gasoline, I get around 42 mpg in town, and 36 - 37 mpg on the highway, that with the cruise set on 75 and the climate control on.

One thing I really like having, and I don't think the Volt has, is a way to switch to hybrid power. If I'm going on a highway trip, it's usually about five miles to the nearest expressway. I drive to the expressway in EV mode, then switch to hybrid when I get on the highway, then back to EV mode when I get off. It's also useful if it's cold, since the engine is an integral part of the car's heating system. I switch to hybrid mode to get the engine started so I don't use up the battery charge trying to heat the car. If it's 40 degrees or colder it's more efficient to use hybrid mode since I don't have a reverse cycle heater, which most dedicated EVs do.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Perhaps you meant Volt?
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Naming another car xolt was NOT a smart decision by GM. It has led to a lot of confusion.

Volt: A plug-in hybrid car (technically range-extended electric) that has 35-53 miles of electric range depending on model year, after which it has a gasoline engine that kicks in and keeps you going. Introduced in 2011.

Bolt: A purely electric mini-SUV that goes 238 miles per charge. No option for gas.

N747JB said:
You know I am a Ford dealer, so here comes the shameless plug for the Fusion energi! It's been a great car for us, we sell a ton of them, mostly used due to the price point, but pretty trouble free, probably worth looking at if a larger car is ok.
Click to expand...

True story. The Fusion Energi is a really great car, I call it my "gateway drug" to EV driving. Unfortunately, it really hasn't improved much since its introduction in 2013. It's got better range than the plug-in Prius or PHEV Accord, but it's really disappointing to me that they haven't invested in making it better. The Volt had a better electric range to begin with (35 vs 19 miles), and they made it better a few times, up to 53 miles in the "2nd-gen" (2016 and later) Volt models.

The Fusion Energi can work for people who have a very short commute, but I don't live in or near town so going to the store without burning any gas really meant babying it. I could do my commute for a while, but only because I got permission to plug it in at work. When we moved our office an additional 4 miles away and I lost the ability to plug it in at work, I started using a lot more gas.

denverpilot said:
I believe that’s what @flyingcheesehead leased waiting on his Tesla someday when he has white hair. Ha. :)
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They've thrown the doors open now - Anyone can get on the web site and configure now. They're saying 2-5 months depending on configuration. Long range is required still.

I haven't placed my order, but mainly because I'm still on the fence as to whether to get the Tesla, or to get a travel trailer, solar on the house, build a detached garage, etc.

MIFlyer said:
We just bought the wife a 2015 bmw i3. Love it. Like new way under 20k. It also has a backup generator to reduce range anxiety. Fun, compact. 0-60 in 6.x seconds. Good car so far
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That's what I have right now - A 2017 BMW i3, bigger battery though without the REx (114 miles EPA range). It pretty much meets all of my needs as a commuter, even going to my client 88 miles away since there are some charging options nearby.

It's very fun, and I rather enjoy it when I see something like a Camaro and the driver looks at me condescendingly with my weird-looking little box of a car and then I leave him in the dust when the light turns green. :rofl:

Two main drawbacks: We have a 1.5 year old kid, and the rear-facing child seat combined with the suicide door setup makes it very difficult to get him in, so we pretty much just use the other car whenever we need to take him places now.

The other drawback is that it sucks in winter. Tiny little narrow tires, and it doesn't seem to pay attention to whether it's skidding when it's regenerating. Driving it in Eco mode helps somewhat, but most i3 owners say that winter tires are an absolute requirement, and I would agree. But, I just took over someone else's lease on it for a year (it was an absolute steal) so it wasn't worth buying another set of tires for it for a single winter.

3393RP said:
For the OP, if you decide to purchase an all-electric vehicle, IMO the Bolt is the best choice.

The range and cost give it an advantage. The fact there is a nationwide service network stands by itself as a reason to avoid buying a Tesla, as if that car's $60K price wasn't enough of a negative.
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Tesla has a worldwide service network. Sure, they don't have as many locations as GM, but if they did, they'd be mostly empty anyway. They're just a smaller company.

FWIW, Teslas rarely need to be taken in - There's no reason to put them on a lift, everything is accessible from above so they can be worked on wherever and Tesla's "Ranger" service will make the rarely-needed service stop at your home or office. Tesla recommends a yearly checkup but it is optional. Owners report that service tends to mean rotating the tires and replacing the wiper blades every so often.
 
So you electric car users, how are you contributing to the upkeep of the roads?
 
EdFred said:
So you electric car users, how are you contributing to the upkeep of the roads?
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for us, we pay pretty heavy on the tags ($500/year).

in addition, our other car is a tuned 1 ton diesel, so i buy plenty of gallons of diesel a month. we have the second highest fuel tax in the country. to enable us to tear out arterial roads and add bike lanes for 100 people to use a day.
 
MIFlyer said:
for us, we pay pretty heavy on the tags ($500/year).

in addition, our other car is a tuned 1 ton diesel, so i buy plenty of gallons of diesel a month. we have the second highest fuel tax in the country. to enable us to tear out arterial roads and add bike lanes for 100 people to use a day.
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I'd happily convert to a system where we record our odometer each year and pay XX cents per mile in tax instead. i'm not trying to get a free ride, but there's not easy way to do it within the current laws
 
EdFred said:
So you electric car users, how are you contributing to the upkeep of the roads?
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It’s a free ride in AZ until 2021 when they eliminate the basically “free” registration.
 
EdFred said:
So you electric car users, how are you contributing to the upkeep of the roads?
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I think here in California we are supposed to start paying $100 a year on the registration renewal. Maybe next year? I forget.
 
$100 seems low considering what the fuel taxes are.
 
MIFlyer said:
I'd happily convert to a system where we record our odometer each year and pay XX cents per mile in tax instead. i'm not trying to get a free ride, but there's not easy way to do it within the current laws
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I'd imagine a tax on tires should cover it pretty easily.
 
Dunno. Bought Mrs. Steingar's Honda Fit in 2009. Thing gets better than 40 mpg, and gas is cheap. Yeah, gotta change oil. Haven't gone through brake pads yet. It would take north of 7K gallons of gasoline at today's prices to make up the price difference with an electric. At the rate she drives it would take 20 years to burn all that.
 
My older brother had a Nissan Leaf Gen 1, and now a Chevy Bolt. He says the Bolt is great, loves EV and sees no reason to go back.
Also, for most two car families, he thinks hybrid is the worst of both worlds. Just get one family hauler for road trips and one EV.
A hybrid gives you two power train systems to maintain, but limited battery. So you really have the worst of both.

Tim
 
EdFred said:
$100 seems low considering what the fuel taxes are.
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For my electric, it's almost exactly the same amount of money they would have gotten from fuel taxes with the same amount of miles on my old gasser.
 
tspear said:
My older brother had a Nissan Leaf Gen 1, and now a Chevy Bolt. He says the Bolt is great, loves EV and sees no reason to go back.
Also, for most two car families, he thinks hybrid is the worst of both worlds. Just get one family hauler for road trips and one EV.
A hybrid gives you two power train systems to maintain, but limited battery. So you really have the worst of both.
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While that is true to some extent, I never would have bought a fully electric car first. I ended up with one because I bought a plug-in hybrid pretty much on a whim and loved electric driving so much that I haven't looked back. The PHEV was my "gateway drug".

Plus, if it's a one-car household, a PHEV is still pretty cheap to run and gives you most of the advantages of an EV without any range anxiety.
 
I went by my local Chevy dealer in Blue Ridge - Bill Holt Chevrolet.

I told the lady I might be interesting in a Bolt. She asked if I meant Volt. I said, no, the Bolt hybrid. She said she didn't think they made those anymore. Checked with a manager, who said that was only available in California. Finally another fellow said they may get allocated a Bolt in 6 months or so and to check back.

I may query a dealer in Knoxville to see if I get any better results.

As an aside my goal is to keep driving our 2005 Element as long as its reliable. Photo taken yesterday:

43902658072_787eab68b8_z.jpg


Admittedly not any sort of world record, but it is the most miles I've ever put on a single vehicle, and its to date the most reliable I've owned.
 
@FastEddieB

The dealer is mis-imformmed. My brother bought the Bolt in MA, and he pitted dealers in Maine, Mass and NH against each other. All had them in stock or to be delivered.
Also the Bolt is an EV. The Volt is the hybrid.

Tim
 
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