Chartering a Plane - Minimizing Pocket Damage

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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Jaybird180
I have an event coming up where I may need to pay for transportation for 4 people coming from Atlanta. A 5th attendee, also coming from Atlanta will pay his own way. Since I may be on the hook for the first 4, why not charter a plane that can accommodate 5 (possibly 6 if he has a travelling companion:dunno:).

Where should I go to find such a thing at reasonable pricing?

The flight will likely leave Atlanta coming to DC on a Friday and returning on Sunday or Monday.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I have an event coming up where I may need to pay for transportation for 4 people coming from Atlanta. A 5th attendee, also coming from Atlanta will pay his own way. Since I may be on the hook for the first 4, why not charter a plane that can accommodate 5 (possibly 6 if he has a travelling companion:dunno:).

Where should I go to find such a thing at reasonable pricing?

The flight will likely leave Atlanta coming to DC on a Friday and returning on Sunday or Monday.
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I know our local FBO charters pilots and planes (310, 401, King air 100, and falcon 10) and are priced accordingly and this is a pretty small airport. The last time I priced a flight from michigan to orlando in the king air (or 401) it was the plane/pilot cost plus overnight expenses for pilot (2 days) . Unfortunately I could fly all 6 people commercial for 1/2 the cost. So I opted for the commercial route and saved a few grand thus covering lodging for the same price.

But I would contact the local FBO first and ask.
 
Buy them airline tickets. You'll save money. Charters generally only make sense when you're trying to minimize total travel time for high-dollar business people.
 
The subject line of this thread makes it invalid from the get-go.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I have an event coming up where I may need to pay for transportation for 4 people coming from Atlanta. A 5th attendee, also coming from Atlanta will pay his own way. Since I may be on the hook for the first 4, why not charter a plane that can accommodate 5 (possibly 6 if he has a travelling companion:dunno:).

Where should I go to find such a thing at reasonable pricing?

The flight will likely leave Atlanta coming to DC on a Friday and returning on Sunday or Monday.
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Check with Epps Aviation at KPDK. It's best to charter out of Atlanta if you are going to turn them back around quickly.
 
I agree with checking Epps at KPDK. But I think you are going to be in for some sticker shock...
 
I was going to say PDK may be your best choice to ask. At the very least, they could point you in the right direction.
 
Look for a 310 on charter. That will likely run you $400-500/hr, from DC to ATL might actually almost break even.
 
LDJones said:
Buy them airline tickets. You'll save money. Charters generally only make sense when you're trying to minimize total travel time for high-dollar business people.
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Yep. Airline tickets will probably be cheaper.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Look for a 310 on charter. That will likely run you $400-500/hr, from DC to ATL might actually almost break even.
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Unpressurized? Are they pilots? Are these people important you? Most people don't want to get on anything that's not a jet. An Avanti would be ok though. Business or first class on airlines is fine.
 
I just booked a ticket from Atlanta to DCA for $102. Airlines would definitely be the most economical option. I looked into chartering a king air C90 once from an FBO in Northern Virginia, and they wanted to charge $5,000/hour. I'm pretty sure there's some cheaper options out there, but airlines would still be the most economical option. There is a website though called charterhub.com, where you can search for charter aircraft
 
Call Sophia Beale at Epps
770-458-9851 O
sbeale@eppsaviation.com


Jaybird180 said:
I have an event coming up where I may need to pay for transportation for 4 people coming from Atlanta. A 5th attendee, also coming from Atlanta will pay his own way. Since I may be on the hook for the first 4, why not charter a plane that can accommodate 5 (possibly 6 if he has a travelling companion:dunno:).

Where should I go to find such a thing at reasonable pricing?

The flight will likely leave Atlanta coming to DC on a Friday and returning on Sunday or Monday.
Click to expand...
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Or getting parts from point A to point B when your supply chain has failed and you need it NOW!!!

Jim
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Connie Kallita supported a top fuel drag racing program flying auto parts into Detroit 'just in time' in everything from Lears to 747s. That's in the normal course of business.
 
JC150 said:
I just booked a ticket from Atlanta to DCA for $102. Airlines would definitely be the most economical option. I looked into chartering a king air C90 once from an FBO in Northern Virginia, and they wanted to charge $5,000/hour. I'm pretty sure there's some cheaper options out there, but airlines would still be the most economical option. There is a website though called charterhub.com, where you can search for charter aircraft
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I have asked for quotes on charters before and made the experience that the first quote you are given is an absolute moon number just thrown out there to see whether you are dumb or desperate enough to take it. After some shopping around, the number came down to a fraction of the initial. Also, when asking for quotes, make sure to get all the involved cost quoted, operators like to nickle and dime you to death with the incidentals and fees to keep the plane and crew at a destination for more than x hours.

To say that the airlines are 'cheaper' is the same as saying that hitchhiking is 'cheaper' than a chauffered limousine or prison cheaper than the Hilton. The only comparison to a charter in a turboprop or jet are business class tickets for everyone, and those go for $850/pax and up on that route (I dont consider AirTran an airline).

For 5 pax this is a pretty short leg, anything from a short body Mu2 on up will work. Get quotes, not only from the big operators at PDK but also outfits on the smaller fields within a 30min flight range. Not all of them are drowning in work, you may find someone willing to eat the repositioning flights and cut you a break on the fee to keep the plane on site for 2 days to gain your business.
 
Henning said:
Connie Kallita supported a top fuel drag racing program flying auto parts into Detroit 'just in time' in everything from Lears to 747s. That's in the normal course of business.
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I'm looking at it from a MRO point of view..."the widge just broke, do we have one in stock? No? But we are loosing $21,000 an hour with it down!"

I see a niche for "Back to the Future Express" when it absolutely, positively has to be there yesterday!

Back to the thread:
This will not help the OP find a charter, but this what they cost up in the northern Great Plains.
http://www.stormflyingservice.com/index.cfm?nodeID=26091

Jim
 
When I was flying charters, the prices were typically relatively consistent and we could quote rather well. Sometimes we'd eat some profit to "build a customer", but really, everyone got treated pretty equally.

However, we didn't have the margins to afford eating repositioning legs, so those got charged. We never stayed more than overnight. So, one customer who had weekly trips (down Tuesday, back Thursday) got to pay for two round trips per week, vs. hotel and accommodations for the pilots.

Every business is different, though, and I'm sure there are ones that will try to throw a high number just to see what you'll do.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Why would you recommend them? They don't meet basic mission requirements.
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Neither do the suggestions of an MU2 or other turboprop.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I have an event coming up where I may need to pay for transportation for 4 people coming from Atlanta. A 5th attendee, also coming from Atlanta will pay his own way. Since I may be on the hook for the first 4, why not charter a plane that can accommodate 5 (possibly 6 if he has a travelling companion:dunno:).

Where should I go to find such a thing at reasonable pricing?

The flight will likely leave Atlanta coming to DC on a Friday and returning on Sunday or Monday.
Click to expand...

Damn Jaybird, is the event an inheritance party? I would not have guessed you were independently filthy rich! :rofl:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Neither do the suggestions of an MU2 or other turboprop.
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What am I missing? 5 or 6 folks headed a distance of less than 500nm seems to be a pretty good mission for a chartered turboprop, such as a King Air 200.
 
kayoh190 said:
What am I missing? 5 or 6 folks headed a distance of less than 500nm seems to be a pretty good mission for a chartered turboprop, such as a King Air 200.
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"Minimizing pocket damage"

Otherwise, I'd agree that a KA200 (or even a 90) would be a fine fit.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
"Minimizing pocket damage"

Otherwise, I'd agree that a KA200 (or even a 90) would be a fine fit.
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If I do this, there will be a requirement for the pilot to be an MEI, then I'd ride along on the return trip and log the time as ME training.:D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
"Minimizing pocket damage"
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Ah! I was going the other way with it, minimizing pocket damage by recommending a 200 instead of a midsize jet. :)
 
unless you have no other options or have to be there imediately and on your schedule the old "back and forth" will kill your wallet. 4 legs for a 2 way trip on a small plane to me its not worth it. I would fly on my own and make the rental suck on the overnights. otherwise its impractical and costly.
 
cirrusmx said:
unless you have no other options or have to be there imediately and on your schedule the old "back and forth" will kill your wallet. 4 legs for a 2 way trip on a small plane to me its not worth it. I would fly on my own and make the rental suck on the overnights. otherwise its impractical and costly.
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This is where a good charter broker pays off because they fill empty legs.
 
After a recent charter quoting exercise for the boss, I'm convinced that "empty legs" are a big part of the cost unless you are turning around immediately.

Speaking of "empty legs", they really don't seem to be priced too low. As the departure time gets closer, wouldn't it be to their advantage to take whatever they can get? At some point, getting $500 or so is better than $0, but it doesn't seem like they'd ever go that low, they would just fly empty. Why is that?
 
Jaybird180 said:
If I do this, there will be a requirement for the pilot to be an MEI, then I'd ride along on the return trip and log the time as ME training.:D
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If the flight is 135 that is a no-go.

If you were to find a MEI with a 421 to perform the flight as instructional flight...... :stirpot: *

*Note for the traditionally humor and clueless, I do not advocate doing this as there are 12 ways til sunday for this to go wrong.
 
kayoh190 said:
Ah! I was going the other way with it, minimizing pocket damage by recommending a 200 instead of a midsize jet. :)
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Well, if that's how you're saving money then a Citation Sovereign coming from Denver would save money vs a 747 coming from Seattle. Gotta have that extra room to walk around. :)
 
Way back when, when I was flying for a 135 operator, I regularly fielded calls from folks who thought that a little airplane would be cheaper than a big airplane. It didn't take much effort to convince them that that was not true...four (and sometimes five) figure quotes for one-way domestic trips; they never consider that the plane must deadhead home and the costs are the same both ways.

Bob Gardner
 
dans2992 said:
Speaking of "empty legs", they really don't seem to be priced too low. As the departure time gets closer, wouldn't it be to their advantage to take whatever they can get?
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When a significant chunk (if not the majority) of the charter fee goes to flight related expenses such as fuel, no it's not to their advantage to take what they can get, because that may mean they are losing money. Better to keep the plane parked at home than fly on your own dime.
 
My wife manages a Citation Excel and they're fully-loaded operating cost is around $2,400/hour. Add the charter company's margin, and all the miscellaneous fees (fuel surcharges, landing fees, ramp fees, pilot incidentals, etc.) and it adds up really fast. They recently donated a round-trip to anywhere in the continental U.S. (four days out and back) to a charity auction and I think it was around $16K value (based on furthest possible destinations.)
 
StinkBug said:
When a significant chunk (if not the majority) of the charter fee goes to flight related expenses such as fuel, no it's not to their advantage to take what they can get, because that may mean they are losing money. Better to keep the plane parked at home than fly on your own dime.
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Hypothetical example: primary customer wants to fly from LA to NY, one way. Charter company's rate for the flight is X. They quote the passenger 2X because of the deadhead leg back. Customer takes the flight.

Now, suppose I've never ridden in a business jet and would love to go for a ride, I don't care when or where it's departing, just tell me and I'll be there. I can afford $500. They are making the return flight, regardless, so I would just figure they'd rather make 2X + $500 than just 2X.

Am I making sense here? Where is the error in my thought process, because clearly this is _not_ done.
 
dans2992 said:
Hypothetical example: primary customer wants to fly from LA to NY, one way. Charter company's rate for the flight is X. They quote the passenger 2X because of the deadhead leg back. Customer takes the flight.

Now, suppose I've never ridden in a business jet and would love to go for a ride, I don't care when or where it's departing, just tell me and I'll be there. I can afford $500. They are making the return flight, regardless, so I would just figure they'd rather make 2X + $500 than just 2X.

Am I making sense here? Where is the error in my thought process, because clearly this is _not_ done.
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Here you go...

https://www.jetsuite.com/node/292
 
dans2992 said:
Hypothetical example: primary customer wants to fly from LA to NY, one way. Charter company's rate for the flight is X. They quote the passenger 2X because of the deadhead leg back. Customer takes the flight.

Now, suppose I've never ridden in a business jet and would love to go for a ride, I don't care when or where it's departing, just tell me and I'll be there. I can afford $500. They are making the return flight, regardless, so I would just figure they'd rather make 2X + $500 than just 2X.
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The customer already paid for the return leg.

'DayJet' was supposed to work differently where you paid a fixed rate for the distance and they took care of the backend, a bit like a taxicab where you dont care whether the cabby had a fare to get to your neighborhood. It didn't work, probably for reasons unrelated to the concept per se.

The 135 side of NetJets is big enough to do this to some extent. If you go from NY to LA on mon and back on thur, the plane that picks you up on thur wont dead-head out from NY but probably somewhere on the west coast.
 
Henning said:
Unpressurized? Are they pilots? Are these people important you? Most people don't want to get on anything that's not a jet. An Avanti would be ok though. Business or first class on airlines is fine.
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We do charters in our 208s and people still get on. They just don't go real fast when they get on though.
 
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