Changes Since Your Initial Training (Get Off My Lawn edition)

wanttaja said:
I looked at the "Where" for stall-spin accidents in the homebuilt world. The most common location was on the initial climb or the crosswind turn....
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I suspect the same is true for production-type aircraft.

Ron Wanttaja
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The discussion was about landing, not taking off. We don't usually do close in patterns when we take off.
 
steingar said:
The best place to get a stall/spin accident is base to final when you overshoot and use rudder to correct.
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I know this is common advice, and I've taught it myself. But it always baffles me a little, and here's why - I didn't learn about this cause of spins until well AFTER my Private Pilot checkride. Years after. And when I did hear it, I remember thinking "What? Who would correct for an overshoot just using rudder? That's even a thing? Why do that?" Like anybody else, I have flown through final many times over the years - but have never even once thought of correcting it using just rudder. Instead, just keeping the turn coming back around to reintercept final is just so obvious, it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try something else.

But, as a CFI, I know that people do all kinds of weird things, so who knows. And, obviously, the statistics bear this out.

I assume that my viewpoint on this is due to good instruction when I was a student pilot, for which I am very grateful. I do remember my CFI saying things like "okay, see you overshot final a little, so just keep the turn going until you're back on course." Since he never even brought up the rudder issue, I never considered it as an "option".

Primacy is a very real thing.
 
RussR said:
I know this is common advice, and I've taught it myself. But it always baffles me a little, and here's why - I didn't learn about this cause of spins until well AFTER my Private Pilot checkride. Years after. And when I did hear it, I remember thinking "What? Who would correct for an overshoot just using rudder? That's even a thing? Why do that?" Like anybody else, I have flown through final many times over the years - but have never even once thought of correcting it using just rudder. Instead, just keeping the turn coming back around to reintercept final is just so obvious, it doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try something else.

But, as a CFI, I know that people do all kinds of weird things, so who knows. And, obviously, the statistics bear this out.

I assume that my viewpoint on this is due to good instruction when I was a student pilot, for which I am very grateful. I do remember my CFI saying things like "okay, see you overshot final a little, so just keep the turn going until you're back on course." Since he never even brought up the rudder issue, I never considered it as an "option".

Primacy is a very real thing.
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I've sort of felt the same way. Not saying I've never been uncoordinated in the pattern, but just don't sense taht I've tried to force the turns with rudder. I've long thought it was just because I have decent "spatial intelligence"...I can picture that path of continuing the turn in a nice rounded path and don't feel the need to square it off.... and assumed maybe others are picturing a square pattern
 
There weren't a lot of things that would cause near instant correction from the CFI, but being uncoordinated by accident was one of them.
 
Bob Noel said:
Is that because you get lots of practice?

<evil grin>
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I practice them a lot. I was surprised when I was getting checked in a plane, the instructor told me "airplane on the runway" on short final, so I went around. He told me that most pilots struggle with the go around.
 
PaulS said:
I practice them a lot. I was surprised when I was getting checked in a plane, the instructor told me "airplane on the runway" on short final, so I went around. He told me that most pilots struggle with the go around.
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In a flight review, a CFI (close friend/coworker, too) once prompted me to go around by saying “elephant on the runway”. His point was that when a calls a conflict is called out, go around and don’t waste critical time trying to verify for yourself or decide what to do. The default from final is a go-around. Land if everything is just right.
 
ateamer said:
In a flight review, a CFI (close friend/coworker, too) once prompted me to go around by saying “elephant on the runway”. His point was that when a calls a conflict is called out, go around and don’t waste critical time trying to verify for yourself or decide what to do. The default from final is a go-around. Land if everything is just right.
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I've used the elephant, the bus full of nuns, the herd of baby unicorns, you know, whatever random image pops into my mind at the time.
 
RussR said:
I've used the elephant, the bus full of nuns, the herd of baby unicorns, you know, whatever random image pops into my mind at the time.
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Staypuff Marshmellow man?
 
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