Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Light and Sporty Guy
Sounds like it works better than my installed radio.
Champ or Cub under Bravo/Mode C?
- Thread starter Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)
- Start date
orange
Line Up and Wait
The fact that in 2016, there are planes allowed to fly without a radio and transponder is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. That's all it is, my opinion.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
Shielded or unshielded ignition?
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
Yep, everyone has them. Sometimes they stink.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
I hope they continue to be able to do so myself.
champ driver
Line Up and Wait
Not every place is like the East coast or SoCal.
Flying in the middle of Nebraska, among many other places, has wide open airspace and not all the latest bells and whistles are needed.
I have no problem hearing or transmitting with my handheld and an unshielded harness.
tinerj
Cleared for Takeoff
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tinerj
Shielded wires to spark plugs, is that what shielded electrical ignition means? I have no electrical system, no alternater, so that may be one advantage.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
A shielded system can make all the difference. Radios frequently pick up ignition noise from the mags if jags and wires are unshielded. I flew a Cub with unshielded ignition from a towered field for several years using a King KX-99 and had few troubles getting in and out. Occasionally, if the antenna didn't have a clear shot, the ignition noise would make hearing me a problem. Then pulling power back to idle typically helped. Another guy in same boat couldn't seem to get anyone to hear him at power anytime.
I could receive well ll the time and frequently transmit over ten miles. I still use my old Kings and frankly, haven't found another handheld radio which works as well.
I could receive well ll the time and frequently transmit over ten miles. I still use my old Kings and frankly, haven't found another handheld radio which works as well.
champ driver
Line Up and Wait
Mostly, an unshielded harness means mags, wires and plugs, although it can include the switch to mag wires too. I run Eisemann AM-4 mags and M41E plugs, the plug terminals are like what you would find on an old tractor. Remember, this is 40's technology. I have some ignition noise, but not enough to make any real difference in transmitting or receiving. Eisemann's are great mags, with only 1 AD and I've had great luck with them. The range is enough to get in and out of any class D airport or less.
zaitcev
En-Route
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Pete Zaitcev
I know a guy who hand-props an Interstate Cadet (it's almost exactly like a Cub, only better). He always ties the tail to a stake. Once engine is running and it's established that the throttle is not running away, then he unties it and climbs into the seat.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
I agree it is better in some ways, but it isn't better for propping. It is more akin to propping a Champ than a Cub. The Cub's clamshell door make it hard to beat when it comes to hand propping from behind with immediate access to the throttle. A Cub also wins for warm weather flying and downward visibility with doors open. That said, there is nothing wrong with the S1A Interstate Cadet. I used to fly one belonging to a museum back in the 80s. I liked the front seat solo and easier entry through the car type door. The seat was more comfortable than a Cub's front seat and forward visibility on the ground was better. The "under-hand throttle" was a bit odd sensation at first. The pivot was above the handle so it swung under the pivot. It was a bit faster than a Cub too. As I recall, it was a bit slower getting airborne than a Cub. Like most airplanes of the time, it wasn't exactly overpowered.
I enjoyed flying it. Sadly, it is no longer flying and hanging in a museum in Liberal, KS.
I enjoyed flying it. Sadly, it is no longer flying and hanging in a museum in Liberal, KS.
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)
Line Up and Wait
Can you fly similar planes in busy airspace? Off a paved runway vs grass? Is it a reasonable endeavor to say I can invest up to $10k up front and $5k a year to fly? (Thinking 2 other partners).
Historically, no. Not to own, for sure. But as a renter, the math is different.
Now A short sunset hamburger run is "well, that's $200 that could go towards braces" vs that's $20 of fuel and the plane is just sitting there. As a renter, Is the plane available? Can I get there within 15 minutes of the time, or get charged etc.
Is 45 minutes each way reasonable to drive to fly for an hour?
The beauty of the PPL for me was, I would come home from work, see my son a bit, put him to bed. My wife would almost certainly fall asleep, and I would head to the airport around 9:30. I could do some take offs and landings all lit up, putz around a bit and find some landmarks, and an hour would, literally, change my outlook on life. AND - I wasn't taking away from time with my wife and (now 3) kids or job.
My daylight hours are pretty booked. I could take vacation, but that isn't certain. If a deal comes up, I'd have to cancel. Weekends are so precious because my wife is a SAHM. That's the only time she gets a break.
I figured a Champ was around $25k. $8 buy in if I can find partners. Figured $300/month each for hangar, insurance and annual.
Whatever an OH would cost/1800 hours + oil change + fuel/ hour usage would be the hourly rate.
In my mind, it shouldn't be hard. In real life, you have to find partners, find the plane, get insurance.
Historically, no. Not to own, for sure. But as a renter, the math is different.
Now A short sunset hamburger run is "well, that's $200 that could go towards braces" vs that's $20 of fuel and the plane is just sitting there. As a renter, Is the plane available? Can I get there within 15 minutes of the time, or get charged etc.
Is 45 minutes each way reasonable to drive to fly for an hour?
The beauty of the PPL for me was, I would come home from work, see my son a bit, put him to bed. My wife would almost certainly fall asleep, and I would head to the airport around 9:30. I could do some take offs and landings all lit up, putz around a bit and find some landmarks, and an hour would, literally, change my outlook on life. AND - I wasn't taking away from time with my wife and (now 3) kids or job.
My daylight hours are pretty booked. I could take vacation, but that isn't certain. If a deal comes up, I'd have to cancel. Weekends are so precious because my wife is a SAHM. That's the only time she gets a break.
I figured a Champ was around $25k. $8 buy in if I can find partners. Figured $300/month each for hangar, insurance and annual.
Whatever an OH would cost/1800 hours + oil change + fuel/ hour usage would be the hourly rate.
In my mind, it shouldn't be hard. In real life, you have to find partners, find the plane, get insurance.
I was based at IAD for several years, then moved to VKX until 9/11 and then to CJR. All pretty busy airspace.
I'm down underlying the CLT class B now on a grass strip. No problems.
I'm down underlying the CLT class B now on a grass strip. No problems.
Doggtyred
En-Route
There is nothing in that part that says you cannot hand-prop without a pilot (or other individual) at the controls.
champ driver
Line Up and Wait
91.13 covers a wide range of activities that the Feds would consider "careless or reckless" without being specifically listed.
Look at the OP question that I was addressing, that's the part I was calling illegal, leaving a kid alone in the cockpit at the controls and no mention of trying it down.
Hmmm. You're saying I have to be comfortable with a 9 yo at the controls if it gets away from me? Good insight. Anything similar, LSA, with a starter?
Here's a post I made earlier if you care to read it.
Re-read my original answer to his question about leaving a kid at the controls while propping. No where was it mentioned that he was going to tie it down first. In my opinion, with only chocks and relying on a kid left at the controls, if a Fed on the ramp saw that, I would bet that you would get a violation. That was why I said THAT was illegal, no where else did I say it's illegal to prop a plane alone. Geoffrey, the way you prop a plane is perfectly fine and safe, I did not say you were illegal.
In my 5th post I said if it was tied down and a kid was in the back you would probably get a violation, I really meant only NOT tied down.
I've been propping my plane since before '85, I try and be safe and not take chances. I'm not going to tell you how to do you own propping, that's your business.
Frankly I have too many certificates to risk by having someone with no training inside unless it's tied down securely.
It's not how you read 91.13, it's how the Feds interpret them that counts. Anyone can prop a plane all day and it's no problem, it's when an accident happens, that's when the Feds will look for an excuse to violate you.
Look at the OP question that I was addressing, that's the part I was calling illegal, leaving a kid alone in the cockpit at the controls and no mention of trying it down.
Hmmm. You're saying I have to be comfortable with a 9 yo at the controls if it gets away from me? Good insight. Anything similar, LSA, with a starter?
Here's a post I made earlier if you care to read it.
Re-read my original answer to his question about leaving a kid at the controls while propping. No where was it mentioned that he was going to tie it down first. In my opinion, with only chocks and relying on a kid left at the controls, if a Fed on the ramp saw that, I would bet that you would get a violation. That was why I said THAT was illegal, no where else did I say it's illegal to prop a plane alone. Geoffrey, the way you prop a plane is perfectly fine and safe, I did not say you were illegal.
In my 5th post I said if it was tied down and a kid was in the back you would probably get a violation, I really meant only NOT tied down.
I've been propping my plane since before '85, I try and be safe and not take chances. I'm not going to tell you how to do you own propping, that's your business.
Frankly I have too many certificates to risk by having someone with no training inside unless it's tied down securely.
It's not how you read 91.13, it's how the Feds interpret them that counts. Anyone can prop a plane all day and it's no problem, it's when an accident happens, that's when the Feds will look for an excuse to violate you.
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
I was based at 3CK for 15 years (up until 2 years ago). There used to be a couple planes there with no electrical or radio. And Myrtle Rose (of the MillRose Restaurant on Barrington Rd.) used to fly a Piper Cub from their grass strip not that far from the restaurant. Of course she got in trouble flying during an Obama TFR. But that's another story.
champ driver you dont have a original factory installed parking brake in your champ? they work quite well if you understand how the brake system works. also got into kjfk pre 9/11 and cell phones. complete NO rad no nothing. called them on the phone coin type. circle cab for light signal land ,taxi .stop call on phone again ect. guy in tower was fun to talk to .i always wondered if a cab controller needed to log any light signal activity much like en-rout guys liked to do a occasional par to final?
Shepherd
Final Approach
Late to the party.
I've hand propped plenty of planes, of all shapes and sizes while flying solo, many of them while standing on floats in the middle of a river or lake.
To confound the "airport experts", I used to hand prop a Tecnam P92. "Everybody" knows you can't hand prop a Tecnam.
If you are worried about having a kid in the plane, start the plane with the kid standing by the tail, then put him\her in the plane.
I did that with my baby sister (she was 7 at the time). Unfortunately, the first time we did it, the engine blew her off the back of the float and into the river. Good thing she could swim.
It worked better the second time.
I've hand propped plenty of planes, of all shapes and sizes while flying solo, many of them while standing on floats in the middle of a river or lake.
To confound the "airport experts", I used to hand prop a Tecnam P92. "Everybody" knows you can't hand prop a Tecnam.
If you are worried about having a kid in the plane, start the plane with the kid standing by the tail, then put him\her in the plane.
I did that with my baby sister (she was 7 at the time). Unfortunately, the first time we did it, the engine blew her off the back of the float and into the river. Good thing she could swim.
It worked better the second time.