CFIs: mandatory reporters?

whereisrandall

whereisrandall

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Randall Williams
Let's say a student comes to me and I find out he's on hyperactivity meds.

Or a guy needs a BFR who admits to having a heart condition and infrequently passing out.

What about a student who mentions one day that he sleeps with a CPAP machine?

None of these guys should be flying -of course I need to talk to them about it. But on what level are we as CFIs mandatory reporters if they're doing it anyway?
 
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The problem with "mandatory reporters" is the sneakiness of the situation. You ask a question to someone of authority, and 3 months later, you get a knock on the door. For that reason, I'd never date a teacher, cop, nurse, or doctor if I had kids and were single.

The worst thing is it's the telephone game, where what that person thinks they heard is what is reported.
 
Not my place.

If my students knew I'd turn them in, they wouldn't come to me with some of the things they do, as a CFI I'm an educator not an enforcer, I find those two things don't go together at all.

Educate them on the situation, give advice, that's that.


If you are the type of person who NEEDS to report your student, at least have the honor to tell your student that you'll be ratting them out on the next business day.
 
Well, I spent 40 years of my working life under mandatory reporting laws so I know a bit about this.
There are situations where you urge the person to do the right thing, and there are situations where you have a legal mandate to report, and there are situations where you simply have to do what is right.
I never had the slightest qualms about reporting child abuse - in a heartbeat. Got death threats at times and felt good about it because it proved I was right.
But there was/were situations like the truck drivers with diabetes. I have resorted there to calling the wife and urging her to step in while there was time for him to find a non driving job. Only one time I felt it was so urgent that I called the employer and told him he was set up to get a major lawsuit if he did not step in. The guy threatened me for that one.
Of course for DOT physicals, etc. I would simply tell the driver I could not sign his medical card because his lab test was outside of allowable limits. I got cussed out at times.
As far as a CFI you don't sign off the applicant once you know that he is self disqualified. If you are not signing off anything then you need to do the dutch uncle lecture with him. Only you can decide if you need to call the FSDO.
A pilot I know of had an episode of passing out and hit a railroad abutment and killed his dog in the wreck. He continued to fly and drive. A few years later he passed out again and hit the oncoming car and killed the lady driving it. Lots of blame to go around - the state for letting him make excuses and continue to drive, for one. The wife and children (adults) for not stepping in. And maybe the doctors involved - but then HIPAA was new at that time and the Courts/ATLA were hell for leather to hang some doc over a HIPPA violation to serve as an example, so docs were understandably gun shy.
 
One of my friends upon getting her CFI certificate from a local FSDO inspector was told that if she ever found someone that she thought ought not to be flying to tell him and he would (his exact words) "Bob Hoover him."
 
It would have to be pretty egregious for me to make it my business, at least to the point of turning someone in. I'm not aware of any regs that make us CFIs "mandatory reporters" in any sense of the phrase. I do accept that some form of "moral" obligation arises under certain circumstances (drunk pilots, for example), but that's a very, very fine line. Fortunately, I've never found myself in that situation and I hope I never do.
 
whereisrandall said:
...What about a student who mentions one day that he sleeps with a CPAP machine?

...None of these guys should be flying -of course I need to talk to them about it.
Click to expand...

The fact that the student sleeps with a CPAP machine simply means that they've been diagnosed with sleep apnea and is being treated for same with the CPAP. WITH the CPAP, they get a normal night's sleep, without it they "might" have the possibility of falling asleep at the wheel.

But in any case unless the student is falling asleep or shows obvious signs of impairment of some sort, it isn't for the CFI to decide who should or shouldn't be flying, its for the flight doc and the FAA to decide.
 
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Report all you want, but it is my experience that it won't go anywhere. There are a number of reckless pilots in my local area and I know people who have called in and filed complaints on some of them. Nothing ever happens. At most someone from the safety team might pick up the phone and give them a call to see if they can talk some sense into them.

Also, for what it's worth, flight instructors are teachers, not policemen. I know of no regulation that mandates reporting. If the student flys ok and you go over everything that you're required to cover I'd say sign them off. Or if you don't feel comfortable signing them off, just sign it off as dual given and let the student find someone else to endorse their logbook.
 
whereisrandall said:
Let's say a student comes to me and I find out he's on hyperactivity meds.

Or a guy needs a BFR who admits to having a heart condition and infrequently passing out.

What about a student who mentions one day that he sleeps with a CPAP machine?

None of these guys should be flying -of course I need to talk to them about it. But on what level are we as CFIs mandatory reporters if they're doing it anyway?
Click to expand...
First case.
I would hope you would have the decency to explain that he/she won't be able to get a medical and should consider either LSA / Glider / Part 103 or be prepared for an expensive, not medically necessary, battery of tests and still may not be able to get a medical certificate.

Second case.
This guy drove to the airport? You don't have a problem with that?

Third case.
Lots of pilots sleep with CPAP machines. The FAA is down with that. But, again, like the first case, if the student has not yet gone through the medical process I would hope, again, that you would have the decency to explain that they would want to look into the documentation necessary to satisfy the FAA.
 
You aren't a doctor. You're a CFI. Don't be sticking your nose into things that are not your business. If you have any qualms about the student, then don't fly with them or don't sign off their BFRs.
 
As I am not a medical professional it is not my duty to, nor do I have any basis in making a diagnosis.
 
flyingron said:
One of my friends upon getting her CFI certificate from a local FSDO inspector was told that if she ever found someone that she thought ought not to be flying to tell him and he would (his exact words) "Bob Hoover him."
Click to expand...

Now there is something I'd report.

So a ASI said, based on the judgement of a ink wet CFI, that if she, in her year or so and couple hundred hours of aviation "wisdom", with no MD after her name, thought someone shouldn't be flying he would act outside of the law and attempt to destroy their aviation future???


I'd be calling OKC ASAP, I'd also try to get that recorded and put it on YouTube.

That ASI shouldn't even be allowed around so much as a paper airplane, and should NEVER reciece a single dollar from the American people which he threatens to victimize.
 
Concur - the worst kind of sleaze-ball Fed; arrogant, unaccountable, insulated from critique, and dead to propriety. Sets the table for mutual disrespect and mistrust, and so FSDOs remain a butt of jokes, and sterotyoes of FAA mangement flaws. . .
 
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