CFIs--How long before you intervene?

Dave Krall CFII said:
I've done a thing for many years where I brief the flight student that if they see my left or right hand come up to the yoke, it's then "my airplane" with no dialog other than that I will be giving to explain the maneuver, and that they are also to lightly keep in touch with their yoke in order to feel my correct inputs to the aircraft. Not only has always it worked great, it developes and enhances their peripheral vision.
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I'd be concerned the trainee would learn that as "standard," and surprise the heck out of some other instructor or examiner by letting go of the controls just because the instructor/examiner went to talk on the radio or was just shifting around for comfort. I'll stick with the change-of-control procedure described in the PTS.
 
I'm not a CFI, but I had to intervene once. Here's the story.

I fly traffic watch up here in Boston. We always fly with two pilots for a couple of reasons, one, for safety, two, so one guy can report the traffic while the other guy flies, and three, if one guy doesn't show up, the plane can still go up.

This guy I was flying with was doing the landing, and he was coming in very slow, weaving back and forth across the centerline. It was making me nervous. His touch down was more like a punch down----WHAM!!!!---he hit the ground very hard, and the plane bounced about 30 or more feet back in the air and started to nose over as it was coming down again for the second hit. We were going to land on the nosewheel or prop...it was very dramatic.
He wasn't doing anything to resolve the situation. I yelled "GO AROUND", but didn't wait for him to react, because there just wasn't time to wait for a reaction. I firewalled it, grabbed the yoke and went around. I am pretty sure that had I not done this, we were going to be taking a lifeline flight to Mass General, and the plane would've been very broken.
In the moment, it was no huge stress, but after we landed and I got back to my car, I realized that I was shaking. It scared the hell out of me.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'd be concerned the trainee would learn that as "standard," and surprise the heck out of some other instructor or examiner by letting go of the controls just because the instructor/examiner went to talk on the radio or was just shifting around for comfort. I'll stick with the change-of-control procedure described in the PTS.
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It needn't be a concern.
Any type of student I've ever flown with can easily tell the difference between 'the instructor/examiner pushing the PTT switch or shifting around for comfort' as opposed to taking the controls for maneuvering purposes. If such a student of your concern does exist, the "my airplane" words are always available.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
It needn't be a concern.
Any type of student I've ever flown with can easily tell the difference between 'the instructor/examiner pushing the PTT switch or shifting around for comfort' as opposed to taking the controls for maneuvering purposes. If such a student of your concern does exist, the "my airplane" words are always available.
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From the PTS:
FAA-11 S-8081-14A said:
Positive Exchange of Flight Controls
During flight training, there must always be a clear understanding
between students and flight instructors of who has control of the
aircraft. Prior to flight, a briefing should be conducted that includes the
procedure for the exchange of flight controls. A positive three-step
process in the exchange of flight controls between pilots is a proven
procedure and one that is strongly recommended.

When the instructor wishes the student to take control of the aircraft, he
or she will say, “You have the flight controls.” The student
acknowledges immediately by saying, “I have the flight controls.” The
flight instructor again says, “You have the flight controls.” When control
is returned to the instructor, follow the same procedure. A visual check
is recommended to verify that the exchange has occurred. There
should never by any doubt as to who is flying the aircraft.
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By my reading, your method may be "legal", providing you can establish that a clear understanding always exists, but is certainly not the "strongly recommended" procedure. Note that this is number two of eleven "special emphasis" items, right behind positive aircraft control and ahead of runway incursions, at number seven.
 
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Good thread! I learned a lot just from reading it. Gibbons, in my first few months of teaching, I did the same thing -- too hands-on at first. Then, a period of not hands-on enough.

Cap'n Ron wrote that you learn to anticipate what's going to happen. Very true!

Anticipation has helped immensely. For example, now, I will let an inattentive student go into a power-on stall with insufficient right rudder, knowing it might turn into a spin entry, so that they can learn the importance of proper rudder control. In the beginning, I wouldn't let that happen out of concern I'd have to do a spin recovery. (Of course, I make sure both the plane and the W&B are in order before allowing uncoordinated stalls, too!)
 
Good thread. I know it's the LAST moment I can intervene when I can see the title line of the NTSB factual summary......
 
For me, it is a very simple concept. When the student exceeds MY comfort zone, I take over. But until then, I will talk them through, assist (with prior notice "You are flying, but I am coming on the controls"), or just allow them to make mistakes which are not threatening to either of us or the aircraft.
Obviously, a new CFI will have a lower comfort zone than one with more experience. But the sooner the CFI develops a greater tolerance, the more quickly the students will learn.

But in ANY case- I make sure I am never more than about 1-2 seconds away from being in control of the aircraft. Even if the CFI is completely relaxed, attentiveness should still be paramount. And an experienced CFI will likely see the beginning of an issue long before the student evens begins to imagine a problem exists. So when it does happen, it should never be a suprise to the CFI.
 
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