CFII Rating

BrianNC said:
All good points about getting the CFI too. I was thinking maybe along the lines of getting an airplane as @Ryan F. said and offering accelerated instruction since I didn't care to do primary. But being able to do checkouts, flight reviews, etc, is a good point too.
Click to expand...
At first I was a bit like you... wanted to focus my efforts toward pilots who wanted "add ons". But I knew that I needed to get some experience teaching aviation topics and inside a noisy classroom with a student who is already very busy. AKA, primary flight instruction....

Now, after applying what my dear mom would say "just try three bites, you might just like it" to primary instruction, I find that the excitement of my students understanding what to do and learning to do it well is very addicting. Especially today when one minor tweak to technique had my near solo student doing his best landings ever. I was glad I was wearing sunglasses because the smile on his face was measured in megawatts.

And if you want this to become a decent income stream, there are often more (and more frequent) primary students than there are for the "advanced" stuff.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Now, after applying what my dear mom would say "just try three bites, you might just like it" to primary instruction, I find that the excitement of my students understanding what to do and learning to do it well is very addicting. Especially today when one minor tweak to technique had my near solo student doing his best landings ever. I was glad I was wearing sunglasses because the smile on his face was measured in megawatts.
Click to expand...
'
Yeah, at this point I can't see any 'excitement' doing primary. I would definitely have to try a few bites first. lol.

Shot you a PM.
 
Last edited:
BrianNC said:
All good points about getting the CFI too. I was thinking maybe along the lines of getting an airplane as @Ryan F. said and offering accelerated instruction since I didn't care to do primary. But being able to do checkouts, flight reviews, etc, is a good point too.
Click to expand...

And If you need to fill in a slow week, you can do that with all of those things.. can’t really throw an new IFR student at a slow week.

You may find career minded ifr students that want to get HP, complex endorsements, etc as part of there training as well. I think you’ll find the lack of Cfi fairly limiting, especially since you’re 2nd Cfi rating is an add on. Don't discount the fun of teaching commercial students as well.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I did both ground instructor tests in parallel with studying for cfi and CFII. I did not do any extra study for the ground tests. Just took them and easily passed. Might not ever need them but it’s just two more test fees at that point. No reason not to do them at the same time.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Also did this. Hardest part was waiting on the guy who couldn’t touch type at the FSDO.
 
denverpilot said:
Agreed. Also did this. Hardest part was waiting on the guy who couldn’t touch type at the FSDO.
Click to expand...
Neither of the two ASI’s at the FSDO I visited could sign onto IACRA, I ended up completing a paper 8710 for my IGI.
 
In my case the CFI-IA was the most brutal oral, but the easiest flight test.

Yes, the knowledge of the Regs and ACS is paramount. Lots of studying...
 
BrianNC said:
I was thinking maybe along the lines of getting an airplane as @Ryan F. said and offering accelerated instruction since I didn't care to do primary.
Click to expand...
If teaching in your own plane, you will then need to obtain approval as an operator of the plane if charging. 100 hour inspections and so on.
 
RussR said:
??? Approval from whom, to do what?
Click to expand...

Not an expert, but it looks like you just need to have your insurance company approve and issue a policy and then do the 100 hour inspections. Are there additional licensing requirements in some jurisdictions? I imagine other posters here have done this.

When I looked into this for my plane, the premiums were high enough to rule out instruction for the occasional student.
 
Last edited:
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Not an expert, but it looks like you just need to have your insurance company approve and issue a policy and then do the 100 hour inspections. Are there additional licensing requirements in some jurisdictions? I imagine other posters here have done this.

When I looked into this for my plane, the premiums were high enough to rule out instruction for the occasional student.
Click to expand...

It seems like there would be a difference in insurance depending on what kind of instructing you were doing. If you were doing primary instruction, then at some point they have to fly alone in your plane, so it seems like that would be higher. If you were just doing instrument training in your plane they’re always going to be with you or a DPE during the check ride.
 
BrianNC said:
... or a DPE during the check ride.
Click to expand...

DPE isn’t PIC. Most private owner insurance won’t cover that ride without naming the student as an insured and that’ll shoot rates sky high. YMMV, the fine print of any policy gets important fast.

Generally anything beyond 5 pilots also becomes “club”/commercial insurance, too.

All of it very spendy.

The break point for teaching in something you own is pretty much full time work, to cover insurance, extra inspections, and still maybe make a profit.

Depending on what the rental per hour in the local market will bear... of course.
 
U.S. Department of Transportation
Office of the Chief Counsel
800 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, D.C. 20591
Federal Aviation Administration
fEB -'2 ~ 2016
Scott Rohlfing
3410 Royal Meadow Lane San Jose, CA 95135
Re: Clarification oflnstrument Rating Requirements of 14 C.F.R. § 61.65(d)(2) Dear Mr. Rohlfing:
This is in response to your letter dated October 18, 2015, in which you requested a legal interpretationof14C.F.R.§61.65(d)(2). Youspecificallysoughtclarificationonwhether aeronautical experience used to satisfy requirements of§ 61.109(a)(3), the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, can also be used to satisfy the requirements of§ 61.65(d)(2), which specifies the aeronautical experience requirements for an instrument rating.
Section 61.65(d)(2) states, in relevant part, that a person applying for an instrument-airplane rating must have logged forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time, of which fifteen hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument- airplanerating. Section61.109(a)(3)requiresthatanapplicantforaprivatepilotcertificate have 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on "the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments."
The requirements of§§ 61.65(d)(2) and 61.109(a)(3) are not mutually exclusive. "Section 61.65(d)(2) does not require 40 hours of instrument training; it requires 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time. As part of those 40 hours of instrument time, 15 must be completed with a CFI who has an instrument rating (in other words instrument training)." Legal Interpretation to Taylor Grayson (July 6, 2010). Under§ 61.65(d)(2), "the required instrument time other than instrument training does not require the presence of a CFI but only the presence of an individual qualified to act as a safety pilot or as a pilot in command of an operation in actual instrument conditions." Id.
Flight instructors who provide flight training on the "control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to the instruments" in§ 61.109 are not required to have an instrument rating on their flight instructor certificate. See Legal Interpretation to Taylor Grayson (Jan. 4, 201 0). Therefore, the 3 hours of flight training on "the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments" in§ 61.109(a)(3) may be applied toward the 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time under § 61.65(d)(2), but may not be applied toward the 15 hours of instrument training unless the flight instructor who provided the flight training under § 61.109(a)(3) held an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor cetiificate and otherwise meets the requirements of§ 61.65.

Weappreciateyourpatienceandtrustthattheaboverespondstoyourconcerns. Ifyouneed furtherassistance,pleasecontactmystaffat(202)267-3073. Thisresponsewasprepared by Neal O'Hara and Katie Patrick, Attorneys in the Regulations Division of the Office of the Chief Counsel, and coordinated with the General Aviation and Commercial Division of the Flight Standards Service.
Sincerely,
Lorelei Peter
Acting Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations
2

October 18, 2015
Office of the Chief Counsel
800 Independence Avenue SW Washington, DC 20591
RE: Request for 61.65 legal interpretation Office of the Chief Counsel,
As a Gold Seal CFI, I have found the regional FSDO's as well as their appointed Designee's have been interpreting the eligibility requirements for the instrument airplane rating inconsistently. Therefore I am requesting a legal interpretation or opinion from your office.
The question is whether the 3 hours that are required for Private Pilot eligibility per 61.109 (a) (3) which states, "3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments" can be applied towards the Instrument Rating experience requirement per 61.65 (d) (2) which states, "Forty hours" of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating."
And further, if the student pilot training experience per 61.1 09 (a) (3) can be applied towards the requirements of 61.65 (d) (2), is the time applied towards the "Forty hours of actual or simulated instru'ment time" or, can it be applied towards the "15 hours must have been received frpm. ao authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating." If the stude.nt pilot training time can in fact be applied at all, the latter would
imply that the training titne would only be applicable if the CFI giving the student pilot instruction also h~ld an Instrument Instructor certificate.
..
I look forward to your reply.
) ..
Respectfully,
Scott Rohlfing
341 0 Royal Meadow Lane San Jose, CA 95135
'• ;\
···,_,
 
Sheesh.... did he ball up not putting spaces between words???
 
And you could have just posted the links and then your associated comments on why you shared those LOI’s
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top