CFI wants to do Night while I..

marcoseddi

marcoseddi

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
1,376
Location
Long Branch NJ
Display Name
Display name:
marc
So CFI texted me and said want to do a night flight tonight at 8:30 instead of our 6 oclock flight. Now I am not opposed to a night flight however I am trying to get to Solo level, and got about 11 hours and want to do more pattern work so i can get to solo level and be able to land all that. Doing a night flight seems like a waste if i havent completed that part yet what do you guys think should I do the night or say no lets do pattern work at 6?

Thanks for your help.
 
It's a bit unusual, but the first night flight is ... in the pattern.

You need 10 takeoffs and landings at night, minimum.

It's not that different. That's the major point of night flying. The aircraft flies exactly the same.
 
I typically don't do night flights out here till my students have done nearly all of their hood work but we fly in dark dark conditions where you are often on insstruments at rotation and during the flight.

I think that a night flight at your stage is odd .. But prolly wouldn't hurt

Maybe your CFI has a dinner date and is just trying to to do both, and no have to cancel someone
 
If you haven't soloed yet and your CFI is pushing you to do night flight, and if you feel uncomfortable, then I'd say no. You have to be comfortable with what you're about to do. If something in your gut says no, then just say no. Trust me, your CFI will respect you for your decision-making.
 
I think night training is cool and would recommend getting some even now but if you aren't ready then it is your time and money.
 
Sometimes it helps to break the routine a little then go back to learning how to land. Trust his judgement.
 
Open yourself up to the experience ..you may find it fun and different which is never a bad thing.
 
There is no race to solo unless you are on a military induction program with a prescribed number of hours to solo. Finding suitable weather for introduction to night flight can be tough. If this is a good opportunity than I'd suggest you sieze it.
 
jesse said:
Sometimes it helps to break the routine a little then go back to learning how to land. Trust his judgement.
Click to expand...

You mean like I trusted my CFI's judgement that soft-field landings were a good/fun thing to practice, even though I hadn't yet mastered landings in general? And some $7,000 in instruction later, I still hadn't yet mastered landings? I don't mean to be disrespectful, because I know you're someone who has a lot of respect here, but I stand by my initial advice, which was: if you don't feel comfortable doing it, don't do it.
 
Night flight is never a waste. Doing landings at night requires a bit more focus than daytime, and will probably even help you when it comes time to solo.
 
Enjoy your first night flying experience. But it will be hard to top my first night XC experience, when we witness an exploding rocket motor at Caddo Mills and the resulting 200-foot fireball.
 
Thanks for all the posts guys, it just seems odd like we keep jumping and I haven't finished the landing part yet now landing at night I don't kno I'm not uncomfortable doing night at all however uncomfortable on his motives to do night now..
 
marcoseddi said:
Thanks for all the posts guys, it just seems odd like we keep jumping and I haven't finished the landing part yet now landing at night I don't kno I'm not uncomfortable doing night at all however uncomfortable on his motives to do night now..
Click to expand...

Again, trust your instincts. They will serve you well.
 
bartmc said:
Student pilots pay CFIs to develop their instincts. If your instinct is to not go with your CFI, find a new one.
Click to expand...

In some respects, I have to agree with you there. Maybe I've just had unusually bad experiences, but my first CFI, for instance, told me I didn't really need to do a preflight, because the plane had already been flown that day.:eek: On the other hand, I don't really subscribe to the theory that CFIs are all-knowing gods. I think it's always good to question what we are being told, whether by CFIs, or air traffic controllers, or whomever.
 
Dean V said:
I wonder how much a student would spend if a CFI waited until a student mastered taxi before doing take offs and waiting until the student mastered takeoffs before basic 4, ect.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this, but trust me, I had a CFI who was far more interested in doing what he wanted to do than he was in helping me achieve my goals.
 
Eagle I said:
In some respects, I have to agree with you there. Maybe I've just had unusually bad experiences, but my first CFI, for instance, told me I didn't really need to do a preflight, because the plane had already been flown that day.:eek: On the other hand, I don't really subscribe to the theory that CFIs are all-knowing gods. I think it's always good to question what we are being told, whether by CFIs, or air traffic controllers, or whomever.
Click to expand...

Trust but verify.

My guess is the CFI is double booked for 6pm, the evening looks good so he's pushing the lesson 2.5 hrs instead of cancelling and he'll be able to log night too. Plane lands the same day or night, if it's a clear full moon night. OP probably won't be able to tell the difference. First night flight is typically pattern laps anyway. Besides, night flying is fun, wish I did more of it.
 
bartmc said:
Trust but verify.

My guess is the CFI is double booked for 6pm, the evening looks good so he's pushing the lesson 2.5 hrs instead of cancelling and he'll be able to log night too. Plane lands the same day or night, if it's a clear full moon night. OP probably won't be able to tell the difference. First night flight is typically pattern laps anyway. Besides, night flying is fun, wish I did more of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, trust but verify is a motto I can live by.:wink2: But still, in this scenario it still seems like it's all about the CFI's needs. Shouldn't flight instruction really be about the needs of the student pilot?
 
Eagle I said:
In some respects, I have to agree with you there. Maybe I've just had unusually bad experiences, but my first CFI, for instance, told me I didn't really need to do a preflight, because the plane had already been flown that day.:eek: On the other hand, I don't really subscribe to the theory that CFIs are all-knowing gods. I think it's always good to question what we are being told, whether by CFIs, or air traffic controllers, or whomever.
Click to expand...

Maybe just ask your CFI what the overall plan is? There shouldnt be any hidden motivates. It could be that this night flight is "plan B " for this lesson and for a good reason....in aviation stuff changes all the time
 
Last edited:
If your instructor doesn't have a real plan and is just trying to squeeze one more paying flight into the day, that would be bad. So ask what's on the agenda. If you haven't got landings down in daylight, then trying them at night would likely be unproductive, possibly counterproductive. If you instead go out and do some night orientation in the practice area, including slow flight, steep turns, and other airwork you already have a grip on in daylight, that would be very productive use of your time.
 
Ron Levy said:
If your instructor doesn't have a real plan and is just trying to squeeze one more paying flight into the day, that would be bad. So ask what's on the agenda. If you haven't got landings down in daylight, then trying them at night would likely be unproductive, possibly counterproductive. If you instead go out and do some night orientation in the practice area, including slow flight, steep turns, and other airwork you already have a grip on in daylight, that would be very productive use of your time.
Click to expand...

"If your instructor doesn't have a real plan ..." Oh, how telling those words are! Sadly, three of my first four instructors had no real plan. At last, I've found a good one! It seems simple enough, but most of us who embark on flight training really have no clue, and are counting on those who instruct us to show us the way. Sadly, many of them have no clue -- or interest -- either.
 
Eagle I said:
"If your instructor doesn't have a real plan ..." Oh, how telling those words are! Sadly, three of my first four instructors had no real plan. Sadly, many of them have no clue -- or interest -- either.
Click to expand...

That is unfortunate if you are really finding it that hard to find a CFI that seems legit..but flight instruction is all about planning ..and to say that many of them don't have a clue is way overstated considering what they went through at the FSDO to get a CFI ticket...
 
Last edited:
Eagle I said:
but my first CFI, for instance, told me I didn't really need to do a preflight, because the plane had already been flown that day.:eek:
Click to expand...

Wow!

I would never tell someone that. If it was your own personal plane no one had flown before, it is a personal decision. But a rental that someone could have damaged previously? Preflight every time! It is your life. But I also admit as a student, you will tend to defer to the instructor's judgement as you don't have the experience to draw on.

David
 
flhrci said:
But I also admit as a student, you will tend to defer to the instructor's judgement as you don't have the experience to draw on.
Click to expand...
Y'see, that's the problem. Student Pilots just don't know better, so they have to rely on the instructor's knowledge, experience, and professionalism. Unfortunately, there are a lot of CFI's out there who lack one or all of those, and the Student Pilot has no good way to realize that without someone more experienced helping. Fortunately, marcoseddi has some of that help here, and now knows what questions to ask to see if this instructor is doing something useful and appropriate or not.
 
flhrci said:
Wow!

I would never tell someone that. If it was your own personal plane no one had flown before, it is a personal decision. But a rental that someone could have damaged previously? Preflight every time! It is your life. But I also admit as a student, you will tend to defer to the instructor's judgement as you don't have the experience to draw on.

David
Click to expand...

Absolutely preflight every time! Fortunately, even though I was a newbie, I had the good sense to ignore his suggestion and proceeded to do a preflight, much to his annoyance.
 
taters said:
That is unfortunate if you are really finding it that hard to find a CFI that seems legit..but flight instruction is all about planning ..and to say that many of them don't have a clue is way overstated considering what they went through at the FSDO to get a CFI ticket...
Click to expand...


Am I overstating the problem? I don't know, because I have only my own experience to base my assessment on. All I know is that at my last flight school, I was given very little feedback or direction. I spent many hours and thousands of dollars pursuing my goal, and it seemed like I would never even solo. I switched schools, and suddenly, I was told what I needed to do to solo, we went out and did it, and I soloed the next weekend! Suddenly, it all seemed so simple! Anyway, I'm sorry if I keep dwelling on my bad experiences. I'm just hoping others can avoid the mistakes I made. If a flight school or instructor isn't working for you, try another.
 
EdFred said:
Night flight is never a waste. Doing landings at night requires a bit more focus than daytime, and will probably even help you when it comes time to solo.
Click to expand...

I did night flying after solo, but I can say with certain that night landings greatly improved my day landings. Go out and have fun, you have to have night flying anyway and trust me you will love it. Some of best times have been night flying.
 
Just figured out what it is he has a job flying someone around trying to find a falcon I'm like dude are u serious u canned my flight yesterday I told u for sure today and he goes u didnt answer my text this morning for 830 I said yeh so u should consider that as we are still on what a damn douche I've really had enough he may be getting fired he said well its not a lesson so we may be able to still go but a bit later
 
My CFI has me concentrating on softs and shorts before I can even land. His explanation was, if I master the nuance it takes every inch on final doing both a soft field landing and a short field landing, the general landings will come naturally. He says if he taught them after I mastered a regular landing, it would take much longer for me to learn the plane. I completely understand this approach, although I've had some difficulty with ground effect. I have a greater understanding of what it takes to land the plane. I trusted him and he was right. I fully agree with my CFI that learning to nuance the plane is the hard part and you learn more about the aircraft with softs and shorts because you have to work harder. I'm not sure if that theory applies to day/night landing, but I would trust my CFI because he gave me an understanding of why.

If it's an understanding you need, ask. It's your money.
 
Like he made it like i didnt confirm because he got a paying job meanwhile u alreayd got the job so u clearly were trying to change my flight anyway and shouldnt u call someone or at least keep the schedule unless spoken to i didnt answer him all day because i wanted to get some feedback and screw it i dont have to answer him right away i had my flight If i will change i will let you know. I really feel like this cfi is something else i dont know im not really enjoying my flights i feel like im trying to go to fast and want to finish really quickly and hes doing the opposite of what everyone else says.. Someone may be getting fired!
 
Is there a chief pilot at your school? Might want to discuss this with them. Obviously you should be the priority when you have a lesson on the schedule.
 
he says he never confirmed it well thats fine i told u last night we are good lets go i want tomorrow what more did i need to do
 
Flying is all about confidence and trust. It seems to me you have lost confidence in your instructor, and you seem not to trust him either. My guess is this started before this night flight business. My recommendation is to take a day or two off to calm down, decide why you feel the way you do, and if it is unfixable(which it seems to be), find a new instructor or flight school. Someone said this is business and not personal, in many ways it is business, but it is personal as well. If you do not trust your instructor nor have confidence in his training, you may never trust yourself, or become confident in your own abilities to fly.

I think you need to do yourself a favor, before you waste more time, money, and emotion find yourself a new instructor.
 
Buisness can be the most personal thing in the world ..but there is a great point by Douglas
You guys seem to have a CRM issue and that happens ..when personalities don't mix in flight instruction feelings get hurt fast.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top