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Greg Bockelman
All I have to say is I am glad I am not doing this today and I will NEVER willingly let my CFI expire!
CFI initial questions
- Thread starter AggieMike88
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Dude. I just posted over in Medical Topics why I might be done with flying but I’ll STILL make sure to renew the damn CFI until I’m dead.
Redoing those check-rides would be a major pain In the ass.
But I’m glad they’re hard. It’s an important ride and important that we at least try to make sure people know how serious it is.
But I’ll be trying to do the online renewal or get to an in person one no matter what. Ha. I don’t want to prep that hard ever again!
Hahahaha. Okay. I’d do it if I HAD to. Can’t fly the flight right now anyway so that would be the end of that. Sigh.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you are a competent instructor, other than time and expense for the plane and examiner, you should have no objection to retaking the CFI ride. If rust and cob webs have set in it is past time to get your game back.
Last edited:
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Pretty much exactly the same way, except I don’t think you have to address Private/Commercial ACSs, only Sport Pilot.
I’d suspect it would be thorough in the area of what privileges require additional endorsements and what training is required for them.
Clip4
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There are so few LS students and so few LS rentals available I don’t why you would put forward the the effort, bit here is the standard.
https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-29.pdf
I have neither the desire nor the cash to get my instrument and commercial ratings, and the local FBO has a J-3 but not enough instructors. It would also give the opportunity to do transition training in student owned light experimentals, as I recently did and enjoyed (informally and for free) in the student's new Quicksilver.
Also there's a very good chance that the LSA minimums will be expanded in the next few years to include a lot more aircraft.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
I wouldn’t hold my breath on expansion of LSA minimums. As much as EAA etal are pushing this, the public comment period will be brutal with some players coming out against LSA expansion that you don’t expect.
write-stuff
En-Route
It's been about 20 years and I don't remember exactly what I was asked to teach, but I did have some fairly fancy PowerPoint lessons all set up and ready to go. The examiner really liked that a lot. Actually, that was what evolved into the business I'm in today (although we don't use PowerPoint anymore).
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Does Gold Seal have any resources for learning, memorizing, correlating the Instructor knowledge items such as the FOI Material?
The system you have developed for private, instrument, and commercial appears to be a good way for instructor candidates like me to indelibly ink the information onto the synapses.
write-stuff
En-Route
We go at it from a student's perspective, but you might learn some new ways to teach both the conceptual material as well as the maneuvers.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Dude. I just posted over in Medical Topics why I might be done with flying but I’ll STILL make sure to renew the damn CFI until I’m dead.
Redoing those check-rides would be a major pain In the ass.
But I’m glad they’re hard. It’s an important ride and important that we at least try to make sure people know how serious it is.
But I’ll be trying to do the online renewal or get to an in person one no matter what. Ha. I don’t want to prep that hard ever again!
Hahahaha. Okay. I’d do it if I HAD to. Can’t fly the flight right now anyway so that would be the end of that. Sigh.
Leave us an ID and your IACRA information we can renew you after you are dead.
Bill Greenwood
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Bill Greenwood
I haven't taken my CFI fight test yet, did some preparation for It not long ago, but then cfis changed and other things interfered. I don't think I'd have any trouble with the flying part, I never have had a problem flying a plane, including ifr which I am only about average with, but I don't know all the non flying details of every oral question someone could come up with. I have always focused on the things that really matter in flying, and I find I don't have much patience for meaningless tidbits and probably find them harder to learn than I used to. I know what it takes to fly all over the country and 3 others for the last 40 years, but getting into a deep discussion on what's a 100 hour and what's an annual just seems like more smoke than warmth.
I just did my bfr or fr lately, and thought I might not know all the latest far type stuff. But we did very little talking and about 2 hours flying and lots of stalls, steep turns etc. so it came back pretty well.
I just did my bfr or fr lately, and thought I might not know all the latest far type stuff. But we did very little talking and about 2 hours flying and lots of stalls, steep turns etc. so it came back pretty well.
write-stuff
En-Route
Being a good pilot is less important than being a good teacher. Your job as an instructor is to transfer knowledge.
Clip4
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Poor, good, excellent. If you aren’t at least a good pilot, it’s rather difficult to demonstrate maneuvers to ACS standards while teaching.
Bill Greenwood
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Bill Greenwood
Its starts with being a good pilot. if you cant fly very well its hard to teach it. And certainly if you have bad habits or habits and procedures that are not the best for the student, you are not teaching them the right stuff. And I agree a good teacher is really valuable and one thing I have found is some of it is experience and some of it is personality, does the CFI like flying, does he/she like people and really care about helping them learn. There are a few out there who act like a student is doing them a favor just to be in the CFIs glorious presence.
write-stuff
En-Route
Ok, you guys are correct. You must be a good+ pilot. Poor choice of wording on my part. But being a good+ pilot does not make one a good+ instructor. That requires being a good+ teacher. There is a lot more to being a flight instructor than demonstrating maneuvers.
schmookeeg
En-Route
Yes, you also need to talk about maneuvers.
schmookeeg
En-Route
So I didn't so much "sit" for my oral exam (MEI Initial) as my examiner was just getting into photography. It started out normal enough, in a stuffy little classroom:
1. I taught a Vmc Demo.
2,3. I taught the entire lesson straight out of my lesson plan, the stack of which I brought along in a banker box. He asked interesting questions. I brought a toy airplane to discuss aerodynamic effects. I drew all of the silly diagrams that we draw for P-factor, and accelerated slipstream, and the curly-Qs for torque and spiraling slipstream. Took about 45 minutes. He didn't critique, he just asked "studenty" questions.
Then we got up and went outside to the runway. He snapped photos of the planes training that day. We both perched under the elevator of a tied-out King Air to provide shade. He asked me to tell him EVERYTHING I knew about VFR flying. I proceeded, for about an hour, to rattle off airspace facts, rules, regs, how to become a pilot, and weather minima.
At one point, he stopped me, disgruntled. I assumed I had botched something.
He asked "Where would you go to buy a camera tripod?"
I answered "Best Buy"
"Okay, come on. Don't stop talking."
I entered his car and rattled off facts about aircraft performance, redundancies in aircraft design and features.
I described preflight procedures, what to look for, and why they are important as we zigged around the aisles.
I described preventative maintenance while he paid the very confused Best Buy cashier.
I described cross-country planning on the drive back to the King Air photo perch.
With the well running dry, I squeezed out cross-country fuel considerations and diversions, weather avoidance, flight plan filing, after-hours procedures, and courtesy cars. He set up his tripod and snapped more photos.
As we entered the third hour of my ceaseless jabbering, he told me to stop. "Okay, that's pretty good. Meet me at the plane in 30 minutes."
The flight was even crazier. I'd fail an engine with, say, mixture, and he'd run "the drill" and in the process un-fail the engine mixture. The drill says shove everything forward. He'd tell me how to loop my finger around the lever to avoid injury and guard my "failure mode". He tested my rudder guarding similarly.
I can't think of a time I've been more terrified, but... I learned a TON. And I passed.
So for your questions 4 and 5 -- none, and, well, be prepared for anything?
I don't know what #6 refers to.
Good luck, it's a heck of an endeavour. Maybe yours will be more typical.
denverpilot
Tied Down
That’s hilarious!
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
I can picture the video montage of him going into Best Buy, making his purchase, exiting, going to Starbucks for coffee, the grocery store for the weekly comestibles, and Blockbuster for the DVD, with you all the while just behind him rattling off aviation knowledge.
Sorta like Bubba telling Forest all the ways to cook shrimp.
I'm not holding my breath, I think there will be some changes, but even if it stays as it is it's worth it to me. I'm not looking for a career, just a retirement side gig where I can pass on some of what I've learned over the years.
schmookeeg
En-Route
Haha! It was exactly like that!
I paid a grand to be Bubba Blue in Jacksonville FL for a day.
I concur with the exclusive use of correct and accurate terminology. Slang begets slang and you end up with gibberish...
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
I think the Jive Translator webpage still works...... I might just try and shove a flight lesson through it and see what comes out the other side
denverpilot
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AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Now that would be super funny....
Be sho' nuff t'observe da damn area around ya' by makin' clearin' turns
... Yo
BryanAV8R
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Bryan
8 hours start to finish with 20 min for lunch. From what I remember (it was in April 2000), with a stone breaker of an examiner from the Philly FSDO. We went deep into the weeds and I almost washed myself out by talking too much. Remember "Dragnet"? Just the facts, focused on the level of expertise of the student.
Notebook? Absolutely. Dissect every maneuver in your mind, build a plan around it, and put it in a binder. Instructional knowledge, you have to know it. And it does impress the examiner if he throws you a "come up with a lesson plan for X" and you flip to the page in your binder with your plan built around how you would teach it.
Little things work in your favor too. I did the shirt-and-tie thing (it IS a professional-grade certificate, look the part even if you will be giving training in jeans and a polo.). Had printed up business cards and gave one to the examiner when I introduced myself.
References. The FAA types liked to see the AC versions of THEIR handbooks; Jeppesen and CPC books are great teaching aids. The Feds use the handbooks. Play to their preferences.
One thing that has stuck in my mind all these years later (and the examiner did relate that I was one of the 20% he passes on the first go around...like I said, a stone breaker of an examiner...) was that I'd be OK if I just "remind myself every 20 seconds this student is trying to kill me". Hasn't happened yet, but I still mouth it silently to myself from time to time with some of the students I've had.
My II was a lot easier. But then I had 18 months of experience under my belt, and the II ride was with a DPE who I had flown with for my Commercial and had a good rep as a great stick, total pro (he retired the day before my II ride from American after a 30 year career), and just really a nice guy. I still have his notes for both my commercial and II ride in my logbook case.
Notebook? Absolutely. Dissect every maneuver in your mind, build a plan around it, and put it in a binder. Instructional knowledge, you have to know it. And it does impress the examiner if he throws you a "come up with a lesson plan for X" and you flip to the page in your binder with your plan built around how you would teach it.
Little things work in your favor too. I did the shirt-and-tie thing (it IS a professional-grade certificate, look the part even if you will be giving training in jeans and a polo.). Had printed up business cards and gave one to the examiner when I introduced myself.
References. The FAA types liked to see the AC versions of THEIR handbooks; Jeppesen and CPC books are great teaching aids. The Feds use the handbooks. Play to their preferences.
One thing that has stuck in my mind all these years later (and the examiner did relate that I was one of the 20% he passes on the first go around...like I said, a stone breaker of an examiner...) was that I'd be OK if I just "remind myself every 20 seconds this student is trying to kill me". Hasn't happened yet, but I still mouth it silently to myself from time to time with some of the students I've had.
My II was a lot easier. But then I had 18 months of experience under my belt, and the II ride was with a DPE who I had flown with for my Commercial and had a good rep as a great stick, total pro (he retired the day before my II ride from American after a 30 year career), and just really a nice guy. I still have his notes for both my commercial and II ride in my logbook case.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
sound advice
denverpilot
Tied Down
Why such a short timeframe? We have data back further, right?
Makes the line intended to give the average look fishy, like my Statistics professors warned against.
That timeframe is well into the “hiring boom” where the big mill schools are shoving far more people through.
My stats professor would say, “Notice the lack of data on the number of applicants.”
Not saying it isn’t going downhill, especially during the super sucking sound of mass hirings and kids teaching kids, but also always skeptical of partial data like that. That data specifically shouldn’t be presented without application numbers.
If application numbers doubled in that timeframe and failures only increased 10%... for example... just an example of how statistics can lie. Especially graphs.
Clip4
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One way of looking at, but in reality the rates were -1% over time and insignificant.
I plan to built up to CFII and then instruct on the side and as a retirement plan. The thing that scares me the most are the open-ended questions I keep hearing about. I absolutely suck at open ended questions and just freeze not knowing where to begin.
ja_user
Pattern Altitude
It just takes a little studying before you get in front of a new piece of gear. Given that every installation can be different, the combinations are endless but at least around here we really just run into the same 4-5 units 95% of the time..
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
What avionics? For primary instruction a transponder, a single nav comm and basic 6 pack instruments is all that is needed.
RussR
En-Route
Yes, but he didn't mention only primary instruction, and regardless you have to be able to teach what the client brings. Unless he plans on turning down any client who shows up with anything newer than VORs, he will need to stay "current" on avionics.
While it can be challenging if you have no working experience with advanced avionics, like @ja_user says it's pretty much the same stuff over and over again. Plus a lot of it is building on what you know. If you know the 430/530, you can learn the 650/750 pretty easily. The 430/530 operating logic is also a large part of the G1000 system. If you know a G1000, you can learn an Aspen pretty easily. And if you know either, a G5 doesn't take but a minute to figure out.
Now, when a client put in an Avidyne IFD440, I definitely had some studying to do!
Similarly, while there are many different types of autopilots, most of them work pretty similarly within a few basic groups. For instance, I have a client who put in an STEC 3100. I've never flown one, but I read through the manual and it's pretty much an Stec 55X with a few additional features. So I'm not learning the whole autopilot, I'm just learning the differences from what I already know.