Cessna Citation down in Lake Michigan near KMKE

Wow, something must have REALLY gone wrong. Not very many things can take those things out of the sky without a fighting chance of making it back to an airport.
 
Anyone have a tail number or destination???
 
More info bout the Citation:

The aircraft was a small medical plane that, the Associated Press is reporting, had six people on board. Two of them were crew and four were passengers. Authorities confirm a plane dropped off the radar at 23,000 feet around 4 p.m. A medical jet was scheduled to leave Mitchell International around 3:55 p.m.

The plane was reportedly headed to Willow Run, a suburban Detroit airport, after being in Milwaukee for only a day on business. The plane did not refuel while in Milwaukee Monday. The plane is registered to one of two companies out of Southfield, Mich.
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This is just a couple of miles from where I'm sitting on my couch watching the news. Water temp is 55F. They're still calling it a rescue attempt. How long can a cabin remain watertight?
 
Moxie said:
This is just a couple of miles from where I'm sitting on my couch watching the news. Water temp is 55F. They're still calling it a rescue attempt. How long can a cabin remain watertight?
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How deep is it where it went down?
 
48-60 feet, depending on exactly where. It's about a mile off shore. It's the University of Michigan Organ Donor Team.
 
Moxie said:
How long can a cabin remain watertight?
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Considering the speed that they hit the water. I would imagine about half a second.

I'm sure if it was watertight holding air it would be floating.
 
jesse said:
Anyone have a tail number or destination???
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Tail number I saw is N550BP... But that was from the comments in the Fark thread related to the incident, so take that for what it's worth.
 
Jesse, of course you're right, I guess I'm just an eternal optimist. No such luck today, it's no longer deemed a rescue, now it's a recovery. Sad.
 
Whoa something bad happened up high. The plane dropped of Radar at FL230? How does that happen? inflight break up? This just Blows:(
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Tail number I saw is N550BP... But that was from the comments in the Fark thread related to the incident, so take that for what it's worth.
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Yep, that's it. It shows up on FlightAware with a very short ground track out of Milwaukee. The track log is weird - only three minutes. One minute 23,000, the next 1,800, then the next minute 23,000. So something's goofed up.
 
7/3174 (#3)wi.. Flight Restrictions Milwaukee, Wi. Effective Immediately Until Further Notice. Pursuant To 14 Cfr Section 91.137(a)(1) Temporary Flight Restrictions Are In Effect For Aircraft Accident Only Relief Aircraft Operations Under Direction Of Us Coast Guard Are Authorized In The Airspace At And Below 3000 Feet Msl Within A 3 Nautical Mile Radius Of 430049n/0875230w Or The Badger /bae/ Vortac 107.0 Degree Radial At 19.0 Nautical Miles Us Coast Guard Telephone 414-747-7180 Is In Charge Of On Scene Emergency Response Activity. Chicago /zau/ Artcc Telephone 630-906-8341 Is The Faa Coordination Facility. Wie Until Ufn
 
The ceiling was 1000, visibility 9 miles. The pilot had called in a request to return to the airport. One eye witness (a professional cameraman) noticed the plane flying exceptionally low, make a sharp turn to the left towards shore and then immediately plunging down. Where that turn occurred was at the location of the ILS. Another witness saw just the tail of the plane as it disappeared into the lake. Estimated speed at impact is 180-190 MPH. No mention of it breaking up in the air. They're still broadcasting hopes of finding survivors.
 
Bummer. They lost a LOT of talent in that crash....

This sounds like a fuel accident. There are routines and redundancy for just about anything else.
 
They also lost a lot of precious organs in that accident, more than two lungs, but they're not saying at this point in the hopes of maintaining patient privacy.

The aircraft itself was a loaner-gift because their own was unavailable.... so they're saying on our local news. It's a tragic accident of course, but this one seems almost 'off the scale tragic' due to the altruistic nature of their flight.
 
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This bites. I hope they're still alive, but this is an awfully long time to be in such cold water :(
 
SkyHog said:
This bites. I hope they're still alive, but this is an awfully long time to be in such cold water :(
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Slim chance in 55 degree water. I am hearing that they are looking in water that is only 30 feet deep, that they have found some wreckage and an oil slick, no sign of survivors.
 
They're saying no survivors. The rescue crews found body parts.

Unbelievable tragedy.
 
body parts may not be from the crew/passengers. very sad.
 
tonycondon said:
body parts may not be from the crew/passengers. very sad.
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Agreed, but from the earlier link:
7 a.m., June 5, 2007 ​
The U.S. Coast Guard has just announced that the rescue mission has been abandoned and that there are no survivors of the crash of the jet carrying six U-M Survival Flight crew members. We will continue to provide updates as we receive them.​
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Some new news being reported
An investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board said today that weather did not appear to be a factor in the crash
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John Brannen, a senior air safety investigator with the NTSB, said the pilot radioed the airport tower of trouble shortly after takeoff and the tower had cleared the way for the plane's return.



Brannen said the pilot reported problems with a "runaway condition," which controls the bank and pitch of the craft. There was no further radio contact with the plane, which crashed at 4:04 p.m.

"In laymen's terms, it's very similar to a car wanting to pull in one direction or another," Brannen said.
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Very strange I wonder what was happening to cause something like that. Could it be something they hit or only something internal to the plane's control systems.


Lastly
Searchers found human remains in a section of Lake Michigan about a mile from the shore, in 20 to 50 feet of water. More than 50 divers have been searching the area.

Dr. Jeffrey Jentzen, the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner, said that fragmented human remains had been found.

"A high-speed impact (crash) on water causes explosive-type injuries," Jentzen said.
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Very sad


All fo this is from http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-crashjun05,1,1777669.story?coll=chi-news-hed
 
Uhhh Awwww. Run away trim can be a real bugger in these. THE CWS and AP disconnect switch doesn't trip off the trim on some of these. I'll try to be patient and see what's found, but that's certainly suspect.

Best,

Dave
 
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Taking note of the location of the trim circuit breaker on the DA-20 was the first thing I did when I realized it was electric trim only.

Of course I really doubt the DA-20 would have enough force to be uncontrolable.
 
jesse said:
Taking note of the location of the trim circuit breaker on the DA-20 was the first thing I did when I realized it was electric trim only.

Of course I really doubt the DA-20 would have enough force to be uncontrolable.
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Good points, Jesse. I'll make a note of that next month when I'm flying one.
 
It just occured to me that my trim disconnect was never labeled. I only found out what that button did when I complained that the electric trim didn't work.

I need to make a label. I wonder what it looked like from the factory.
 
I have chatted almost weekly with these guys on my normal run to Willow Run. Very sad indeed. It will be interesting to see what it was, considering I am flying a CE-560.
 
Its hard to compare the two trim tabs (I.E. DA20 to a Citation)...that would be like comparing the Grand Canyon to a pot hole. I could not believe how big the trim tabs are on a Citation.
 
radiokaos said:
Its hard to compare the two trim tabs (I.E. DA20 to a Citation)...that would be like comparing the Grand Canyon to a pot hole. I could not believe how big the trim tabs are on a Citation.
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I didn't say it was the same. In fact I said:

jangell said:
Of course I really doubt the DA-20 would have enough force to be uncontrollable.
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Meaning that I *KNOW* it's not the same thing. But it's still something other people should consider. If you look above--other people did take note of it.
 
BTW Avweb is reporting runaway trim as problem for this particular flight.
NTSB investigator John Brannen told reporters Wednesday the Citation's pilot told controllers at Mitchell International Airport he had a "trim runaway" shortly after the plane departed for its short flight to Willow Run. The pilot reportedly declared an emergency, and asked to return to the airport
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A bit of irony.

The local CBS station went to the hospital here to interview a surgeon for their news story about organ donation and this crash.

This surgeon just so happens to be my student.

He didn't mention being a student pilot! Probably saved himself a lot of questions and prevented the story from being twisted around.
 
skyflyer8 said:
He didn't mention being a student pilot!
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Smart student. Unless one has a similar type certificate of that aircraft and/or can instruct for it, one would be speculating at best. The media loves speculation, but the GA community doesn't need it.
 
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