CE-500 Single Pilot Waiver vs. CE-525S Single Pilot experience requirements

[RussR]

Talking FAA requirements here, not insurance issues or hire-ability.

In order to fly the older Citations (CE-500 type rating) single-pilot, you must pass a single-pilot checkride and be issued a "Single Pilot Waiver". In order to take the checkride, however, you are required to already have 500 turbine PIC or SIC.

For the Citation CJ-series, to fly them single-pilot, you must pass a single-pilot checkride and then will be issued the CE-525S type rating indicating you are authorized to fly single-pilot. However, as far as I can tell, there are NO experience requirements like with the CE-500. You can train for and pass the checkride with zero turbine time.

Do I have this right? Does anybody know why the disparity in the requirements? I think I know all the weirdness with the CE-500 not being originally certified for single-pilot, and that's why it's called a "waiver", etc., but the "500 turbine hours" in one and not in the other does not seem to make intuitive sense. Is the answer just "don't try to make sense of it"?

This is not just academic, I may have the opportunity within the next year to get typed in and start flying a CJ3 and want to make sure I understand the rules involved.

 

[ARFlyer]

My guess from some very quick research:

The CE-500 was certified as a Part 25 aircraft which is required to have two crew. Subsequent variants were moved to Part 23 which doesn’t require two crew. The FSB Report for the CE-500 also states that any CE-500 Type Rating must include “Second-in-Command Required” due to the Part 25 issue.

Someone requested an exemption, No. 9917, to allow single pilot operations for the CE-500 based on the variants, 501, 550, etc..., having been born under Part 23. The FAA agreed but set requirements to issue a Single Pilot Wavier. One of those requirement was a minimum of 500 TPIC time.

The CE-525 is different because it has always been a Part 23 aircraft. So it doesn’t have these odd quirk of straddling certification regulations.

 

[NJP_MAN]

One was certified for 2 pilots the others was certified for 1 pilot. You can fly the CJ as your first jet because it was designed to be flown that way. The 500 was made back in the dinosaur time

 

[ARFlyer]

Talking FAA requirements here, not insurance issues or hire-ability.

In order to fly the older Citations (CE-500 type rating) single-pilot, you must pass a single-pilot checkride and be issued a "Single Pilot Waiver". In order to take the checkride, however, you are required to already have 500 turbine PIC or SIC.

For the Citation CJ-series, to fly them single-pilot, you must pass a single-pilot checkride and then will be issued the CE-525S type rating indicating you are authorized to fly single-pilot. However, as far as I can tell, there are NO experience requirements like with the CE-500. You can train for and pass the checkride with zero turbine time.

Do I have this right? Does anybody know why the disparity in the requirements? I think I know all the weirdness with the CE-500 not being originally certified for single-pilot, and that's why it's called a "waiver", etc., but the "500 turbine hours" in one and not in the other does not seem to make intuitive sense. Is the answer just "don't try to make sense of it"?

This is not just academic, I may have the opportunity within the next year to get typed in and start flying a CJ3 and want to make sure I understand the rules involved.

 

[MauleSkinner]

The FSB Report for the CE-500 also states that any CE-500 Type Rating must include “Second-in-Command Required” due to the Part 25 issue.

So did they put the 501/551 under a different type rating?

 

[Ryan F.]

Russ,

The answers you're getting are correct... the CE-500 and CE-550 were certified as Part 25 aircraft which required two crewmembers, therefore the single pilot authorization came in the form of a waiver rather than the "S" designation found on more modern turbojet aircraft. The waiver stipulates the turbine experience requirement as well as an annual training requirement. The CE-501, which is nearly identical to the CE-500 (don't ask me to outline the specific differences) was certified as a Part 23 aircraft and passed the FAA's "single pilot workload" test. Therefore it is possible to get a CE-501S type rating whereas the CE-500 is always just so, with a waiver available if the pilot wishes to pursue single pilot authorization.

You'll like the 525 series! My favorite is the CJ4, but I flew a CJ2+ all over the darn place by myself, no SIC. It was an enjoyable aircraft to fly. The first time I found myself at FL450 in an empty aircraft (including no one in the right seat) I thought to myself, "this feels a bit strange." But I got used to it.