CBD and Hemp products

But there’s also a timing aspect and that’s what I was talking about. Looks at something like boring old (today) Flagyl. The maker was investigated and fined for off label uses and illegal marketing of those uses, and today they’ll give the stuff to your dog if needed. It’s on label for a crap ton of infections.

People forced to off label use are penalized, sometimes for a very long time, if their insurance wants to play the “must be FDA approved” game. Timing affects the outcome for them. Especially rare disorders with little funding or work on research.
My comments will be a bit "beyond my knowledge" as I am very much more on the R&D side. @bbchien or @lbfjrmd correct me on the physician side of things. But, AFAIK, the FDA doesn't permit the pharma companies from promoting their products for other than their FDA approved indications, probably under the 1912 amendment to the 1906 pure food & drug act. In those days the pharmaceutical companies, such as they were, claimed all sorts of cures for their products. Now they need to demonstrate efficacy. The opioid issues we see today show that the management of the pharmaceutical companies will still try to make a quick buck and deal with the consequences later. Physicians are allowed to prescribe off label. The insurance that you mention is something about which I know next to nothing, and so will not comment about.
 
My comments will be a bit "beyond my knowledge" as I am very much more on the R&D side. @bbchien or @lbfjrmd correct me on the physician side of things. But, AFAIK, the FDA doesn't permit the pharma companies from promoting their products for other than their FDA approved indications, probably under the 1912 amendment to the 1906 pure food & drug act. In those days the pharmaceutical companies, such as they were, claimed all sorts of cures for their products. Now they need to demonstrate efficacy. The opioid issues we see today show that the management of the pharmaceutical companies will still try to make a quick buck and deal with the consequences later. Physicians are allowed to prescribe off label. The insurance that you mention is something about which I know next to nothing, and so will not comment about.

That matches everything I’ve read about the marketing stuff. I was not arguing that it’s a good idea to let them market for everything. But there are medical conditions that’ll never ever get an on-label use because there aren’t enough people to finish a study on it.
 
That matches everything I’ve read about the marketing stuff. I was not arguing that it’s a good idea to let them market for everything. But there are medical conditions that’ll never ever get an on-label use because there aren’t enough people to finish a study on it.

You mean this isn't an acceptable answer for people with ultra-rare conditions like yours?

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It’s no problem. Use it if you like. You’ll have to go to north Texas to get your medical but the nice thing is you can get discount dual in a sr22 or a Grumman from the doc. Heck he could even set you up with that cfi reinstatement you wanted ...
 
It’s no problem. Use it if you like. You’ll have to go to north Texas to get your medical but the nice thing is you can get discount dual in a sr22 or a Grumman from the doc. Heck he could even set you up with that cfi reinstatement you wanted ...
The Dr says he’s coming but you gotta pay him cash...
 
Meh. When was the last time FDA had anything good to say about a drug that they didn't control?

That's not to say that it's snake oil or that is isn't. I just take anything the FDA has to say about alternative medicines with a very large grain of salt.

Rich
So did Steve Jobs. Worked out well for him. My own sister too. You could ask her about it yourself but you'll need a shovel.
 
As long as we're off topic anyway... I've never been a fan of drug companies mass marketing directly to the public. That has to drive doctors up the wall, patients coming in "I saw on TV where xxxx will cure me. I need some of that!"
 
As long as we're off topic anyway... I've never been a fan of drug companies mass marketing directly to the public. That has to drive doctors up the wall, patients coming in "I saw on TV where xxxx will cure me. I need some of that!"

Most of that junk is insanely expensive to boot.

(An Obama judge just blocked Trump's attempt to require pricing info in those commercials)
 
Drug companies started that about the time government put a stop on handing out pens and clocks to the docs.
 
As long as we're off topic anyway... I've never been a fan of drug companies mass marketing directly to the public. That has to drive doctors up the wall, patients coming in "I saw on TV where xxxx will cure me. I need some of that!"
I agree. I don't believe most people have the background or education to judge whether a medicine is useful to them.

Drug companies started that about the time government put a stop on handing out pens and clocks to the docs.
And free exotic vacations to expensive resorts, cruises, etc.
 
(An Obama judge just blocked Trump's attempt to require pricing info in those commercials)

Ahem. Who appointed what judge is not relevant and is Spin Zone.

Let’s try to not have to lock this thread and dish out warnings.
 
I’m picturing another video from @SixPapaCharlie

Videos of drug use require the Monkey. It’ll have to work it’s way back to Bryan for that one. Lol.

So did Steve Jobs. Worked out well for him. My own sister too. You could ask her about it yourself but you'll need a shovel.

Jobs had pancreatic cancer didn’t he? That’s a death sentence no matter what medicine you try. Pretty sure he was shopping for a new one on the grey market, too, by trying to jump the donor list with money. Don’t think alternative medicine was what got him.

Sorry about your sister. I wonder if mine ever gets any diseases if she’ll forego going to the doc and try her stupid oils. Hahaha. I doubt it.
 
Although there are folks that have survived it. Most of the time when pancreatic cancer is found it is too late for treatment.

My uncle died from Pancreatic cancer as well. It was inoperable by the time they found it. He remained asymptomatic for 11 months of the "bonus year" as he referred to it. Then 1 month of increasing symptoms and pain, then he died.
 
Jobs had pancreatic cancer didn’t he? That’s a death sentence no matter what medicine you try.
Not necessarily. He had a form that was much slower growing and has a better survival rate if treated. He decided not to treat it and go alternative instead. No way to know if it would have gotten him anyway because he is only one data point. What is known is he opted for new age voodoo instead of medical treatment and he died.

In my sisters case it was breast cancer. A very treatable, very slow growing form of breast cancer with an extremely high survival rate. If you treat it. But she did not. Instead she believed every bit of BS any alternative medicine pusher fed her and went on a strict diet of yogurt and herbal supplements. If a doctor had prescribed that treatment for her condition, the malpractice suit would be open and shut. Can't sue the touchy feely big pharma is evil here take these vitamins instead witch doctor for malpractice though. And even if you could, what you would get? Their '73 VW microbus that needs a transmission? No thanks.
 
Not necessarily. He had a form that was much slower growing and has a better survival rate if treated. He decided not to treat it and go alternative instead. No way to know if it would have gotten him anyway because he is only one data point. What is known is he opted for new age voodoo instead of medical treatment and he died.

In my sisters case it was breast cancer. A very treatable, very slow growing form of breast cancer with an extremely high survival rate. If you treat it. But she did not. Instead she believed every bit of BS any alternative medicine pusher fed her and went on a strict diet of yogurt and herbal supplements. If a doctor had prescribed that treatment for her condition, the malpractice suit would be open and shut. Can't sue the touchy feely big pharma is evil here take these vitamins instead witch doctor for malpractice though. And even if you could, what you would get? Their '73 VW microbus that needs a transmission? No thanks.

Do you have any links for the Jobs stuff? Just curiosity more than anything, but I read some things when he was fighting it that he was using modern medicine and the alternative stuff together.

Very sorry about your sister. I had an aunt who went whole hog the other direction and got suckered by the sleazebags at Cancer Centers of America into trying silly expensive chit that wasn’t going to make any difference at all with stage 4 metastasized melanoma throughout her entire body, organs, and brain.

I figure she did it mostly for her sisters (my mom and aunt) who really weren’t mentally ready for their younger sister to die in her early 40s. She also knew she had a massive life insurance policy and took the option to have it pay out less but some while alive to cover the quacks at the Cancer place and still leave my uncle and the kids in very solid financial shape.

She lasted about a year. Cancer sucks donkey balls, no matter how you slice it.

Karen has been a member of a very large all women’s chorus for decades now, and it’s been impressive how many women have opted to just get rid of “the girls” when prompted with breast cancer scares and knowing they have a massive family history. Mom and I have old friends from the oil biz decades ago who have both also done it.

As one of those old oil biz accounting manager friends in the pipeline scheduling side of things (just sayin, not oilfield and exposure to crude oil and possible carcinogens)... “My girls are trying to kill me, they have to go!”

Definitely quite sorry your sis didn’t handle it well. People sometimes do that and all we can do is shake our heads. Remember her for the good stuff and not that decision.

We’re pretty sure my dad wouldn’t have had an inoperable brain stem stroke at 61 if he’d have simply had a doc check his blood pressure and give him a $.03 pill per day. But we had to get over it... it was his decision to never go to the doc. Just like his dad. One made it to their 90s acting that way, one only to 61. A blood pressure pill would have had him sitting here talking to us today, I’m pretty sure.
 
Do you have any links for the Jobs stuff? Just curiosity more than anything, but I read some things when he was fighting it that he was using modern medicine and the alternative stuff together.
He did use modern medicine. But only once it became obvious that his alternative method wasn't working.

One of the most accurate perspectives I've heard on this subject: There is a name for alternative medicine that actually works. Medicine.
 
He did use modern medicine. But only once it became obvious that his alternative method wasn't working.

One of the most accurate perspectives I've heard on this subject: There is a name for alternative medicine that actually works. Medicine.
On the other hand, the clinic where my wife works deals largely with people on whom modern medicine has given up, and they have a very high success rate with what they do.
 
He did use modern medicine. But only once it became obvious that his alternative method wasn't working.

One of the most accurate perspectives I've heard on this subject: There is a name for alternative medicine that actually works. Medicine.

Sounds more like what I read about him.

The thing about alternative medicine is that very little of it is new. It’s the old stuff that didn’t work as well, and since we have written language and such, we know this.

I suspect Jobs maybe was trying real new stuff but don’t know.

And as far as THC goes (and to a lesser extent CBD) we know that one is effective for certain things but some folks decided they didn’t like the hippies taking it without their permission or growing it in their back yard. That one is all about control of people with guns. It’s the oddball.
 
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Wow. My second thread ever to go over 100 posts. I didn’t expect that.
 
Sounds more like what I read about him.

The thing about alternative medicine is that very little of it is new. It’s the old stuff that didn’t work as well, and since we have written language and such, we know this.

I suspect Jobs maybe was trying real new stuff but don’t know.

And as far as THC goes (and to a lesser extent CBD) we know that one is effective for certain things but some folks decided they didn’t like the hippies taking it without their permission or growing it in their back yard. That one is all about control of people with guns. It’s the oddball.

Sometimes. Other times it's stuff that definitely works, but can neither be patented nor synthesized, and therefore is of no interest to Big Pharma or their buddies at the FDA. No one is going to invest millions in getting a substance approved if there's no way to recover that investment.

Don't get me wrong: A lot of alternative medicine -- maybe even most of it -- is quackery. But not all of it.

Rich
 
Sometimes. Other times it's stuff that definitely works, but can neither be patented nor synthesized, and therefore is of no interest to Big Pharma or their buddies at the FDA. No one is going to invest millions in getting a substance approved if there's no way to recover that investment.

Don't get me wrong: A lot of alternative medicine -- maybe even most of it -- is quackery. But not all of it.

Rich
Or stuff where the biological mechanism isn't understood. The compound that confers the activity can be patented in a new indication. I once worked on a project where the Maori people used a plant extract as an anti-inflammatory medicine (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8676128 ). The extract showed up in an the appropriate biological assay, and we found the active compound- turned out to be novel to science. It also had a functional group known to be generally toxic- that killed the project. The Maori could use it because it was only applied externally. Even if the compound is known, one could obtain a "use patent".

The FDA has approved a fish oil medicine: https://www.pharmacist.com/fda-approves-prescription-fish-oil-formulation
 
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Very sorry about your sister. I had an aunt who went whole hog the other direction and got suckered by the sleazebags at Cancer Centers of America into trying silly expensive chit that wasn’t going to make any difference at all with stage 4 metastasized melanoma throughout her entire body, organs, and brain.

I figure she did it mostly for her sisters (my mom and aunt) who really weren’t mentally ready for their younger sister to die in her early 40s. She also knew she had a massive life insurance policy and took the option to have it pay out less but some while alive to cover the quacks at the Cancer place and still leave my uncle and the kids in very solid financial shape.

She lasted about a year. Cancer sucks donkey balls, no matter how you slice it.

Coworker's mom, retired flight attendant, was diagnosed with brain cancer. Her kids were all adults but still pushed & pushed for treatment until they were told flat out "I'm not blowing all my life savings to last another year, miserable sick." She lasted about a year without treatment all the while selling stuff, getting the estate all in order, funeral arrangements and everything. When she finally wasn't able to care for herself she only lasted about a week. Kids had very little to do when she passed as she had done everything already.
 
I am currently using an experimental drug called DHMO to help with weight loss and to help with general health. And it is approved by the FAA. Used as prescribed it can work wonders, but if it is abused it is lethal.

The bad part:

The chemical is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death.


DHMO is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
  • contributes to the "greenhouse effect."
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Contamination Is Reaching Epidemic Proportions!

Quantities of DHMO have been found in almost every stream, lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage in the midwest, and recently California.

Despite the danger, DHMO is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.

There are definite benefits though.

In proper prescribed amounts DHMO is safe to drink or to use for food preparation. The amount of DHMO required to maintain good health varies, and depends on physical activity level, age, health-related issues, and environmental conditions. DHMO, along with air pressure, nutrients, and solar energy, is essential for life. DHMO helps to regulate body temperature, keeps the joints lubricated, prevents infections, and carries nutrients to the cells of the body. The powerful health benefits of DHMO include the maintenance of energy levels, body temperature, metabolism, and breathing. It helps in the prevention of constipation, heartburn, migraines, gastritis, ulcers, kidney stones, disorders, rheumatoid arthritis, backaches, and osteoporosis. In addition, the liver and kidneys work to get rid of toxins in the body and these organs rely on DHMO to complete their job.

DHMO is still controversial. Taken in proper prescribed amounts it is very beneficial to human health. Yet uncontrolled it is still very destructive not only to human life but also the very earth itself.
 
I see that @Zeldman is "woke" (to use the parlance of our time) to the dangers of DHMO.

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Since increase in cancer risks are found in virtually every study one can assume it's the study itself that causes cancer.
 
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