Carrying your medical

Newb question- apparently I need to check the regs, but is there a requirement to have your medical on you while excersizing your privileges? Mines in my logbook which I rarely have with me.
 
ifly4fun said:
Newb question- apparently I need to check the regs, but is there a requirement to have your medical on you while excersizing your privileges? Mines in my logbook which I rarely have with me.
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Answered my own question, thanks to the OP, I won't be making that mistake again. How frequent are ramp checks? I've never been checked, or even seen one for that matter. If you've been through one, how do they usually go?
 
I have a pass case with:

Driver's License
CHP
Pilot Certificate
Medical Certificate
ATM Card
One Credit Card
Health Insurance Card.

All the rest: cash, credit cards, etc... in a separate wallet.
 
ifly4fun said:
Answered my own question, thanks to the OP, I won't be making that mistake again. How frequent are ramp checks? I've never been checked, or even seen one for that matter. If you've been through one, how do they usually go?
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They don't happen a lot, I've never been ramped, but they do happen. A couple of years ago they were ramping pilots at Put-In Bay and I just missed it by a few days or a week. No way to know when or if it will ever happen to you, which is kind of the idea.
 
As far as I can see, the one they send you is a copy and when I make a copy it is identical to the one they send. I laminate the original after copying it and carry the original. If I lose it I will laminate the copy.


Jerry
 
the problem being is that on the original you sign it in ink and so does the AME. the copy will not be signed in ink, easy to spot. if you make a copy, there is no record in the FAA of anything but the original being issued. there is a whole paragraph on what you have to do to get a replacement from the FAA. it doesn't say just use a copy that you made.

i am a 100 percent sure if you give an inspector a copy you will be answering a lot of questions you might not want to. I have seen people get an a.. reaming from an inspector for laminating a certificate before the plastic cards were issued.

bob
 
unsafervguy said:
the problem being is that on the original you sign it in ink and so does the AME. the copy will not be signed in ink, easy to spot. if you make a copy, there is no record in the FAA of anything but the original being issued. there is a whole paragraph on what you have to do to get a replacement from the FAA. it doesn't say just use a copy that you made.

i am a 100 percent sure if you give an inspector a copy you will be answering a lot of questions you might not want to. I have seen people get an a.. reaming from an inspector for laminating a certificate before the plastic cards were issued.

bob
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Lots of speculation there, absent of facts.

The Inspector will look at the medical, if it obviously looks like a copy he may ask why. The airman tells him, the Inspector checks the database to affirm its current. Usually ends right there.

BTW, with copiers today it would be very easy to make copies that are indistinguishable from the original. An Inspector is not a forensics expert, and won't waste his time on something so trivial.
 
I put mine in a zip lock and taped it to te back of my Ipad because 99% of the time i fly it's with the Ipad
 
James331 said:
Judging from that black seal, you gotta get your instrument rating :)
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That's my advanced ground instructor certificate. The one right behind that is my CFI/MEI certificate, the one behind that is my CPL SEL/MEL/SES/Instrument Airplane. If I were going to continue instructing, that black seal would be a gold seal in just a few signoffs.
 
nimdabew said:
That's my advanced ground instructor certificate. The one right behind that is my CFI/MEI certificate, the one behind that is my CPL SEL/MEL/SES/Instrument Airplane. If I were going to continue instructing, that black seal would be a gold seal in just a few signoffs.
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Good stuff :yes:

You should get your gold seal if you can!
 
James331 said:
Good stuff :yes:

You should get your gold seal if you can!
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No thanks. I am going stir crazy not flying (physically). I like flipping switches and pushing buttons, not watching someone else do it.
 
All pilot and instructor certificates, along with my medical are in a passport case (with the passport), carried in the top zippered pocket of my Brightline flight bag. I don't fly without it so makes sense to keep them there.
 
MikeELP said:
And what was the other "ingredient" in Certs??
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Don't remember. Do remember that Retsyn was not an ingredient but a trademark for a group of ingredients.

But, back to our story...

What I find most interesting whenever this question comes up is that I think of all the stuff I carry around in life, my FAA medical is among the ones I am least concerned with losing or getting destroyed.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Lots of speculation there, absent of facts.

The Inspector will look at the medical, if it obviously looks like a copy he may ask why. The airman tells him, the Inspector checks the database to affirm its current. Usually ends right there.

BTW, with copiers today it would be very easy to make copies that are indistinguishable from the original. An Inspector is not a forensics expert, and won't waste his time on something so trivial.
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you are such and asshat. you argued in an other thread about what constituted an op-spec even sighting FAA documents, but I point out that the FARS are cut and dried that you must have the original or an FAA supplied replacement and you say that FAR wording does not matter. i'm glad you can speak for all inspectors. im sure you will represent the pilot if an inspector decides to violate someone for flying with a copy.

it's real simple in this case, the FAR say's carry the orginal or get the replacement as is specified in the FAR's.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What I find most interesting whenever this question comes up is that I think of all the stuff I carry around in life, my FAA medical is among the ones I am least concerned with losing or getting destroyed.
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Same here. But I have had my license and medical stolen and it was no big deal. I would be more concerned about losing both my driver's license and passport at the same time.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
One less thing the FAA can look at if ramp checked.
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That's the paranoid reason.

The real reason is that it is difficult to reconstruct, including signatures and so forth, and is therefore worth quite a lot of money. If your flight bag gets stolen or whatever, you're screwed. For that reason, backups are very helpful, but it's still a huge hassle.

My paper logbook has complex and HP endorsements, and a bit over 30 hours of instrument training. The electronic form doesn't have the signatures, though it has everything else. Until I take the check ride, it's worth several thousand dollars (or at least an expensive dinner with my CFII fixing up a new one).

The ramp check thing is not a factor unless you log breaking regs.
 
I can't imagine not keeping your certificate and medical in your wallet (the one you normally carry around with you.) It's one less thing to forget and they take up almost no space.
 
unsafervguy said:
the original had better be on your person if you get ramped.

the FAA WILL NOT accept a copy.

bob
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unsafervguy said:
i am a 100 percent sure if you give an inspector a copy you will be answering a lot of questions you might not want to. I have seen people get an a.. reaming from an inspector for laminating a certificate before the plastic cards were issued.
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Worked for this guy. Not saying you're wrong on the requirement to carry the original, but so much for 100%.

catmandu said:
It became unreadable once: I printed a copy of my backup and put it in the wallet, said copy was later inspected at the FSDO with no issues noted.
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As for mine, it too is in the wallet behind my cert. Only mine has disintegrated. Currently the middle and bottom thirds are taped together with scotch tape front and back, and the edges are completely mangled since the medical is just wide enough to not fit in a standard card slot in a wallet. So it's now folded in sixths, two folds lengthwise and one fold in half sideways. I've had it 4 years though, so I guess for a piece of paper in my wallet that's not half bad.
 
Frogs97 said:
Some years ago, my instructor taped my medical to the inside of my logbook cover, and that's where I've kept it ever since. I'm really starting to think that I want to leave my logbook on the ground in case something happens. I'm in the process of getting everything put into MyFlightBook, but I still like the idea of keeping the physical one on the ground.
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I keep mine in my wallet, but I also have a scan of it uploaded to the "Endorsements" section of MyFlightbook as a backup.
 
unsafervguy said:
you are such and asshat. you argued in an other thread about what constituted an op-spec even sighting FAA documents, but I point out that the FARS are cut and dried that you must have the original or an FAA supplied replacement and you say that FAR wording does not matter. i'm glad you can speak for all inspectors. im sure you will represent the pilot if an inspector decides to violate someone for flying with a copy.

it's real simple in this case, the FAR say's carry the orginal or get the replacement as is specified in the FAR's.
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Can you please quote the regulation that states a pilot must carry an original medical certificate?

I've looked through the regulations and yet to find the word "original" in regards to medical certificates.

And while we are on the subject, please explain to us how an Inspector could process a violation on someone using a copy. Since violations can only be written on regulations, which regulation would the Inspector cite as being violated?

Anxiously awaiting your reply, thanks.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's the paranoid reason.

The real reason is that it is difficult to reconstruct, including signatures and so forth, and is therefore worth quite a lot of money. If your flight bag gets stolen or whatever, you're screwed. For that reason, backups are very helpful, but it's still a huge hassle.
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Yup, exactly. Not worth the trouble to take the chance, unless for some reason you need to carry it (checkride, expect time with a CFI, etc.)...
My paper logbook has complex and HP endorsements, and a bit over 30 hours of instrument training. The electronic form doesn't have the signatures, though it has everything else. Until I take the check ride, it's worth several thousand dollars (or at least an expensive dinner with my CFII fixing up a new one).
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And if you're halfway through a rating, all the more reason to be careful with it.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
"Do you have your logbook with you?"

"I don't recall."

"May I search your airplane to see if I can find a logbook?"

"No you may not."
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Even on my 709 ride the inspector only wanted to see the date on last BFR, that's it, 3 second glance. Log books are not in the purview of a ramp check. You think a government employee is going to go 'above and beyond' in an effort to create themselves more work?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
My medical is folded in thirds and sandwiched between my plastic pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate. I was asked for my pilot and medical certificate for the first time in my 20 years of flying yesterday, when two customs agents came out to visit me at the grass strip in Lubec ME, on my way in from Canada.
 
When I did my SODA flight the FAA examiner printed my medical from my schools computer. Because it was a SODA, my medical is signed by the regional AME (at least mine is) I made a copy of it and keep it with me and the original (if you want to call it that) is in my safe.

I bring this up as there was a debate earlier this year about "can you keep a photo-copy of a medical" - which I called my FSDO (Orlando) and they said - "absolutely"
 
EminiTrader said:
When I did my SODA flight the FAA examiner printed my medical from my schools computer. Because it was a SODA, my medical is signed by the regional AME (at least mine is) I made a copy of it and keep it with me and the original (if you want to call it that) is in my safe.

I bring this up as there was a debate earlier this year about "can you keep a photo-copy of a medical" - which I called my FSDO (Orlando) and they said - "absolutely"
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the question is not if you can keep one, thats your right. the question is does a copy meet the requirements of 61.3.c and the legal experts all say no.
 
unsafervguy said:
http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/RampCheck.shtml

i will trust these guys. they deal with it for a living.

the violation is for 61.3.c. so you are saying that i can give them a copy of my airman certificate also, and that will be fine because it does not say original in the FAR.
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That's precisely why I called the FSDO. I was never given an original. Mine was printed from an HP ink jet printer. But it was done so by an FAA employee (not a DPE) and the signature on my medical was a rubber stamped siggy of someone I've never met... Looking at my photo copy and my original (the one handed to me) you couldnt tell them apart. In fact my copy looks better as I used a laser printer...

Either way - I'm stuck
 
@Bob

I do not know the regs nearly as much as you guys do - but because of your post I searched and read 61.3C as per you're post. I did not read anywhere that it said it had to be an original. Is there another law somewhere? I want to call the guy back at the FSDO this afternoon and see what can be done if i'm not really in compliance. Here's the print:


(c) Medical certificate.

(1) A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the FAA, that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft. Paragraph (c)(2) of this section provides certain exceptions to the requirement to hold a medical certificate.
(2) A person is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph c)(1) of this section if that person--


(i) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a pilot certificate with a glider category rating, a balloon class rating, or glider or balloon privileges;
(ii) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license;

(iii) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a pilot certificate with a weight-shift-control aircraft category rating or a powered parachute category rating and holds a U.S. driver's license;

(iv) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with glider or balloon privileges;

(v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a current and valid U.S. driver's license. A person who has applied for or held a medical certificate may exercise the privileges of a sport pilot certificate using a current and valid U.S. driver's license only if that person--


(A) Has been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application; and
(B) Has not had his or her most recently issued medical certificate suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn.


(vi) Is holding a pilot certificate with a balloon class rating and is piloting or providing training in a balloon as appropriate;
(vii) Is holding a pilot certificate or a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating, and is piloting or providing training in a glider, as appropriate;

(viii) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(2)(vii) of this section, is exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, provided the person is not acting as pilot in command or as a required pilot flight crewmember;

(ix) Is exercising the privileges of a ground instructor certificate;

(x) Is operating an aircraft within a foreign country using a pilot license issued by that country and possesses evidence of current medical qualification for that license; or

(xi) Is operating an aircraft with a U.S. pilot certificate, issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license, issued under Sec. 61.75, and holds a medical certificate issued by the foreign country that issued the foreign pilot license, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that airman certificate.

(xii) Is a pilot of the U.S. Armed Forces, has an up-to-date U.S. military medical examination, and holds military pilot flight status.
 
I keep my medical, and my certificate in my flight bag zippered compartment. It is secure, and I always take my flight bag. No log book!
 
unsafervguy said:
http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/RampCheck.shtml

i will trust these guys. they deal with it for a living.

the violation is for 61.3.c. so you are saying that i can give them a copy of my airman certificate also, and that will be fine because it does not say original in the FAR.
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Please explain how using a copy is a violation of 14 CFR Part 61.3(c)?

How would an Inspector write the violation?

One could refer to 14 CFR Part 67.403(a)(3), but that regulation clearly states "A reproduction, for fraudulent purposes, of any medical certificate under this part" or "An alteration of any medical certificate under this part".

How could the connection be made that a copy is fraudulent or can be considered an alteration?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Please explain how using a copy is a violation of 14 CFR Part 61.3(c)?

How would an Inspector write the violation?

One could refer to 14 CFR Part 67.403(a)(3), but that regulation clearly states "A reproduction, for fraudulent purposes, of any medical certificate under this part" or "An alteration of any medical certificate under this part".

How could the connection be made that a copy is fraudulent or can be considered an alteration?
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This is exactly why I asked. I was told by the FAA on 2 different occasions I was legal.

I do not know if it was because I had a SODA medical or not, nor did I ask but if there is enough here to say I am out of compliance I intend to call the FSDO again - but I need some regulations to point out.. last thing I need is a damn ticket :) :)
 
EminiTrader said:
This is exactly why I asked. I was told by the FAA on 2 different occasions I was legal.

I do not know if it was because I had a SODA medical or not, nor did I ask but if there is enough here to say I am out of compliance I intend to call the FSDO again - but I need some regulations to point out.. last thing I need is a damn ticket :) :)
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Here's the reality.

Go to FAA Order 2150.3B and find the "Table of Sanctions" and you'll find this:

Fig. B-3-h.

Other Flight Violations------------- Civil Penalty-------------- Certificate Action

(1) Certification and qualification

(c) Operation without pilot............... Minimum
or medical certificate in
personal possession
(certificates valid)
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Notice under the column "Certificate Action" it's blank. The reason for that is there is no certificate action recommended.

The sanction table does not have any listing for "Operating with a copy of airman medical certificate". Wonder why?

If there is no recommended sanction for certificate action for not having a certificate on you, and the table clearly does not list anything for using a copy of the certificate, and the regulations have no language against it, I really fail to see where this is even an issue.
 
So I will just present a copy of my airman cert next time and that should be good because the regs does not say original correct.
 
unsafervguy said:
So I will just present a copy of my airman cert next time and that should be good because the regs does not say original correct.
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I thought we were talking about airmen medical certificates?

Anyway, here's another tidbit for you to ponder.
14 CFR Part 61.3

(c) Medical certificate. (1) A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the FAA, that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.
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So, if an Inspector, who is a representative of the FAA, finds you copy of the airman medical certificate acceptable, does it not meet the intent of the regulation?
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Here's the reality.

Go to FAA Order 2150.3B and find the "Table of Sanctions" and you'll find this:

Notice under the column "Certificate Action" it's blank. The reason for that is there is no certificate action recommended.

The sanction table does not have any listing for "Operating with a copy of airman medical certificate". Wonder why?

If there is no recommended sanction for certificate action for not having a certificate on you, and the table clearly does not list anything for using a copy of the certificate, and the regulations have no language against it, I really fail to see where this is even an issue.
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Thanks!! I feel as if I highjacked this thread so my apologies to all... I'm leaving things how they were. I read the regs (Thanks Bob for bringing them up) and looking back at my emails (that I forgot I had) with the FAA inspector that did my SODA - I am pretty sure I'm in good shape.

I try NOT to trust the government, but in this case looks like i'll be ok :) Cheers all!
 
RotorAndWing said:
I thought we were talking about airmen medical certificates?

Anyway, here's another tidbit for you to ponder.


So, if an Inspector, who is a representative of the FAA, finds you copy of the airman medical certificate acceptable, does it not meet the intent of the regulation?
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yes, thats what it says. and if you read 61.29 you will see why it is in there.

it is spelled out that if you loose or destroy a certificate you need to get a replacement and to operate until you get that, you may use the fax from the FAA. I didn't see anywhere in 61.29 that say's "oh just use a copy that you made".



by the way, inspectors do not get to decide what is acceptable or not, that comes from the head office.

(e) A person
 
unsafervguy said:
the question is not if you can keep one, thats your right. the question is does a copy meet the requirements of 61.3.c and the legal experts all say no.
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The standards have changed in the last few years since the FAA inspectors can just look on their electronic device and see that if you have current stuff. Flying Ag you aren't required to have it with you at all. You used to have to (and still should) carry your original to be sure you didn't have it taken from you. Now it's not a deal unless you make it one.
 
unsafervguy said:
by the way, inspectors do not get to decide what is acceptable or not, that comes from the head office.
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For all intents and purposes, yes they do, because they are the point of contact, and you aren't going to complain when you forget your wallet or whatever you keep your certs in and they just look it up on their phone or iPad and say "Ok".
 
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