Career field salaries

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Dang folks, read a book, or take an econ class. . .

In major metro areas, teachers, cops, gov't bureacrats, etc., are paid very well and have great benes. It's a combination of political pull, voter decisions, and market forces.

National average for professional salaries is a silly, meaningless stat, unless you beleive the cost of living in Arkansas is about that of Silicon Valley.

Heck, top tier NFL QBs are probably paid vey close to their true worth - closer than most salaried folks - the QBS get pretty much what the market supports, without the distotions caused non-market forces. We value their play enough to watch the games - and the commercials - the ratings show it to be so.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My wife switched careers and now works for the school district.
I soooooooooo want to downsize everything and work for a school district.
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Does their IT department get summers off?
 
People get paid the salary they agreed to when they took the job regardless of the value that any of us might place on their relative worth to us as individuals or society as a whole. Unless there is a huge shortage of qualified applicants, the posted salary is adequate to achieve its goal which is filling the slots.
 
Unit74 said:
Right................ To come full circle, you make an inflammatory comment and try and act like you are on the high road of nobility in an effort to deconflict your conjecture of what worth is in law enforcement. Then while masking your ignorance of what being in the uniform is all about, and trying to walk it back by claiming you are a big donor to "First Responders" and flip the script on me for being the ignorant one. You do know you are rather transparent, que no?
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I want to save this thread. That way the next time someone says something that annoys me, I can be reminded that everyone always loses in an internet c*ck fight. Everyone. The people in the fight. The people reading it. Everyone.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I want to save this thread. That way the next time someone says something that annoys me, I can be reminded that everyone always loses in an internet c*ck fight. Everyone. The people in the fight. The people reading it. Everyone.
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I tend to agree with you. It really serves no purpose in the end-state.

My crux is the constant limp wristed bashing and hyper-PC bandwagoning driving the dumbing down of society via the social media enablement conduit. Gone are the days of accountability and sensible thoughts, replaced by hashtag grandstanding sans fear of reprisals simply because of geographic dispersion and/or anonymity. I am guilty......
 
Ghery said:
My wife, a RETIRED 5th/6th grade teacher said the same thing before she retired. And those who think teachers have limited hours have never lived with one. There's a bunch of unpaid OT grading papers, etc. that go with the job.
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asicer said:
Reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic for sure. But PE, band and home ec?
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My wife is a middle school band director, and the answer is YES. She doesn't grade "papers" but the students do have to turn in "practice reports" that have to be entered into the district's grading system... And she has jazz band after school a day a week, constantly updates the seating charts to minimize behavior problems... Oh, and she has to teach in the summer, teaching the incoming new band students in small groups how to make a sound come out of their instrument, which involves hours and hours every day listening to the most god-awful, screeching, out-of-tune mess of loud crap sound imaginable. :vomit:

So, she actually only gets one more week of vacation than I do in a year, and she doesn't get to decide when to take it. A week at Xmas, spring break, 2 weeks after school ends and 1 week before it starts up again.

Oh, and she makes less than half what I do, hasn't had a single raise in 7 years, ever since the teachers' unions got busted up by former Gov. Scott Walker. And no, the "good teachers" do NOT "get to negotiate for better wages".

BTW @asicer, the busiest teacher you'll ever find is a high school band director. They teach ensembles and individual lessons all day, and then jazz band and pep band in the evenings and weekends, plan and execute weeklong trips to Florida/NOLA/DC/Europe/etc, marching band during the summer... Their schedule is utterly insane.
 
JCranford said:
If that’s the case imma call B.S. on that info. No way in hell are cops making that
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I would disagree, but with a qualifier...the cops could be making that, but it would be:
a) that $ includes OT, and they are short staffed and/or overworked
b) that $ includes benefits, such as medical, dental, pension/401k, and insurance
c) both a and b
 
well....we all sign up for what's we got's. There's lot's of other jobs out there that pay more....
flyingcheesehead said:
My wife is a middle school band director, and the answer is YES. She doesn't grade "papers" but the students do have to turn in "practice reports" that have to be entered into the district's grading system... And she has jazz band after school a day a week, constantly updates the seating charts to minimize behavior problems... Oh, and she has to teach in the summer, teaching the incoming new band students in small groups how to make a sound come out of their instrument, which involves hours and hours every day listening to the most god-awful, screeching, out-of-tune mess of loud crap sound imaginable. :vomit:

So, she actually only gets one more week of vacation than I do in a year, and she doesn't get to decide when to take it. A week at Xmas, spring break, 2 weeks after school ends and 1 week before it starts up again.

Oh, and she makes less than half what I do, hasn't had a single raise in 7 years, ever since the teachers' unions got busted up by former Gov. Scott Walker. And no, the "good teachers" do NOT "get to negotiate for better wages".

BTW @asicer, the busiest teacher you'll ever find is a high school band director. They teach ensembles and individual lessons all day, and then jazz band and pep band in the evenings and weekends, plan and execute weeklong trips to Florida/NOLA/DC/Europe/etc, marching band during the summer... Their schedule is utterly insane.
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Timbeck2 said:
Oh I get it. I don't blame the ball player at all. I blame the sheep who think $300 for a nose bleed bleacher seat is fair.
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Most of the money comes from TV, not seat sales. Whether TV or in the stadium the money is driven by marketing (i.e. advertising).

Many athletes make more off the field/court than on it. More advertising dollars. Its not that consumers will buy something totally unrelated to sports because their favorite athlete is an endorser.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
The more time I spend in this career, the less I value the pay.
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I'm at the point where I'd like more time off. Sure, I'd love more money, but more time off would be great. I get 4 weeks of vacation and lots of holidays; working in IT at a bank.

My wife and I are planning (long term planning, not later this year) of doing a trip to New Zealand and Australia. We'll go in January as she wants to see all the major tennis tournaments in person; that's when the Australian Open is played. That's at least a 3 week trip. I really don't want to burn most of the vacation time in one trip, especially so in the first month. We may do unpaid leave of absence for part of it so we still have more vacation time later in the year.

Maybe I'll change my tune about income once my wife retires.
 
Maryland State Police and Natural Resources Police start a 'Trooper' or 'Officer' at 47,859 respectively. Step 1 on that scale is 50,252. Retirement is 25 years.
Our local Sheriffs dept. starts out at 46,920 also with a 25 year retirement.
North Dakota State Patrol starts with a base salary of 54,636. You are part of NDPERS with some special rules for LEOs. Comes out to be 90% of last salary at 25 years.

This is base, before: shift differential, getting paid OT for regular scheduled hours, bring your dog to work differential, a take-home company car.......

Considering that those agencies can pick from long lists of candidates who tested for the positions and experience little turn-over, it seems that at the very least the compensation offered is adequate for the job.
Of course, there are jurisdictions like Baltimore who can't find suitable candidates. But that is not related to compensation and benefits. It's not even related to the job itself.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
My wife is a middle school band director, and the answer is YES. She doesn't grade "papers" but the students do have to turn in "practice reports" that have to be entered into the district's grading system... And she has jazz band after school a day a week, constantly updates the seating charts to minimize behavior problems... Oh, and she has to teach in the summer, teaching the incoming new band students in small groups how to make a sound come out of their instrument, which involves hours and hours every day listening to the most god-awful, screeching, out-of-tune mess of loud crap sound imaginable. :vomit:

So, she actually only gets one more week of vacation than I do in a year, and she doesn't get to decide when to take it. A week at Xmas, spring break, 2 weeks after school ends and 1 week before it starts up again.

Oh, and she makes less than half what I do, hasn't had a single raise in 7 years, ever since the teachers' unions got busted up by former Gov. Scott Walker. And no, the "good teachers" do NOT "get to negotiate for better wages".

BTW @asicer, the busiest teacher you'll ever find is a high school band director. They teach ensembles and individual lessons all day, and then jazz band and pep band in the evenings and weekends, plan and execute weeklong trips to Florida/NOLA/DC/Europe/etc, marching band during the summer... Their schedule is utterly insane.
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Thanks for the insight. Re-reading what I asked I realized that it could have sounded snarky. Sorry if it came across that way. I was genuinely curious.
 
tawood said:
I would disagree, but with a qualifier...the cops could be making that, but it would be:
a) that $ includes OT, and they are short staffed and/or overworked
b) that $ includes benefits, such as medical, dental, pension/401k, and insurance
c) both a and b
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Yeah, I agree, crazy overtime!
 
vkhosid said:
For those interested....https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?q=police

Granted, this is only for california, but you can search by year.
I searched for "police", but i'm sure you can fine-tune the search if you want to...Enjoy!
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That website is dicked up. It shows a couple of Huntington Beach police officers making base pay of $89400, which is about what I would expect then shows another HB P.O. making $355,192 with only $2995 in OT. Bullsh&t! It showed another guy with a $300k base but it included some undisclosed ‘settlement’.

If I can make $355k base pay in HB, I’m moving! Huntington Beach ain’t anyth8ng special. They have homeless camps, and BIg ones, right on the main sidewalk!
 
JCranford said:
That website is dicked up. It shows a couple of Huntington Beach police officers making base pay of $89400, which is about what I would expect then shows another HB P.O. making $355,192 with only $2995 in OT. Bullsh&t! It showed another guy with a $300k base but it included some undisclosed ‘settlement’.

If I can make $355k base pay in HB, I’m moving! Huntington Beach ain’t anyth8ng special. They have homeless camps, and BIg ones, right on the main sidewalk!
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Calm down, sparky...I'm not saying that website is scrubbed for weird data. However, taking 30 seconds to search for another link (I'm assuming the State Controllers office is official enough for you), I found this: https://publicpay.ca.gov/Reports/Cities/City.aspx?entityid=301&year=2017

I'm not sure which cop you're talking about that's making 300K base, but the link I provided in the last sentence shows a similar figure for "Police Officer"...take from it what you will.

Actually, if you follow the link I posted (https://publicpay.ca.gov/Reports/Cities/City.aspx?entityid=301&year=2017), and click on the "Police Officer" title, it'll give you a breakdown of the pay. The breakdown seems much more reasonable...but still a bit ambiguous.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
well....we all sign up for what's we got's. There's lot's of other jobs out there that pay more....
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Yeah, but it is NOT good for our society when we get to the point that we don't have the best and brightest teaching any more. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Thanks to the aforementioned actions here in Wisconsin, they're passing emergency regulations allowing for people who would formerly have been considered unqualified to become teachers, just to get a warm body in front of the classroom. :(

asicer said:
Thanks for the insight. Re-reading what I asked I realized that it could have sounded snarky. Sorry if it came across that way. I was genuinely curious.
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I didn't take it that way, nor was my reply intended that way. :) I didn't even realize that stuff myself until I got closer to it a few years ago.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, but it is NOT good for our society when we get to the point that we don't have the best and brightest teaching any more. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Thanks to the aforementioned actions here in Wisconsin, they're passing emergency regulations allowing for people who would formerly have been considered unqualified to become teachers, just to get a warm body in front of the classroom.
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Well....we all should run our affairs as a business.

Some jobs you may like...but not able to afford to live. So...it's simple, supply and demand. When folks think it ain't worth the pay....the supply shrinks and demand will require pay increases. Until then we can talk about jobs that have crappy pay....like pilots? :D
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Well....we all should run our affairs as a business.

Some jobs you may like...but not able to afford to live. So...it's simple, supply and demand. When folks think it ain't worth the pay....the supply shrinks and demand will require pay increases.
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Or, as is actually happening, rule changes. What they're doing here with the teachers is essentially like letting private pilots fly RJs rather than increase pay for commercial pilots.

... Which really gets at the heart of the OP - Public sector jobs have low pay because they're subject to public opinion, and nobody likes to pay more taxes.
 
so....if ya don't like the pay, what are the alternatives? ;)

One of my co-workers got tired of the boredom and low exceptions of his gummint work. He quit to go back to flying 777's...:)
 
Always thought cops were overpaid for the skill and education required, they tend to have better pay and bennies then the average American
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, but it is NOT good for our society when we get to the point that we don't have the best and brightest teaching any more. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Thanks to the aforementioned actions here in Wisconsin, they're passing emergency regulations allowing for people who would formerly have been considered unqualified to become teachers, just to get a warm body in front of the classroom. :(



I didn't take it that way, nor was my reply intended that way. :) I didn't even realize that stuff myself until I got closer to it a few years ago.
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I'm not sure that's ever been the case, at least in public primary and secondary education. I don't generally consider most science teachers to be the best and brightest in their field, but they have been good teachers. I get your point regarding losing quality teachers, but I don't operate under the assumption that they were somehow "the best" simply because they got a teaching certificate. Teachers have a similar problem to a lot of unionized labor where it's difficult to weed out the poor performers, especially when there is rarely a method of merit-based reviews.
 
This thread feels a lot like another one that got @denverpilot and a few others in endless arguments. This is pretty much on par with a political thread - basically 2 camps dug in and will spin-in in about 13 more posts.
 
Sinistar said:
This thread feels a lot like another one that got @denverpilot and a few others in endless arguments. This is pretty much on par with a political thread - basically 2 camps dug in and will spin-in in about 13 more posts.
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2 camps? Let's make it 3!
 
Brad Haggett said:
I am a 30 year LEO and a recruiter for the Missouri State Highway Patrol. Our current starting pay is 48k, double what it was when I joined years ago. Our hiring process takes about 9-12 months... Numerous opportunities, few takers.
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First, our hiring process is outdated (I say "our", since I'm from Columbia.) That really should be streamlined. As for the "few takers" ... It's incredibly competitive to be hired by most law enforcement agencies. Lots of people want to be cops, not many are really cut out for the work. I had a neighbor several years ago who said he was 2nd in the hierarchy for MSHP. He'd been retired several years but it chaffed him that the starting pay was more than his retirement check.
 
A lot of my thoughts probably belong in the Spin Zone, but here goes anyway. $45K is a respectable wage. It's a thorn in my side to hear people in any field complain about their salary. Teachers, police, private sector, etc. My wife was a school teacher when we first married and we were at a school dinner one night and the group was self-congratulating themselves on picking a noble, underpaid profession, etc. But when a few of them really started complaining about the pay I said, politely, "Then why did you pick teaching? You knew what the salary was going to be before you took your first education class in college. You knew all four years of college what it was going to pay. It's not "poverty-level" pay, as you guys are saying. I agree that it should be more, but it's still a respectable wage. BUT IT WASN'T A SECRET!"
 
Kind of a funny story about our police department. Although our chief wasn't popular, I liked him. But he was canned several days ago when the new city manager noticed he was coming in a couple of hours late every day, didn't attend city functions, and left at precisely 4:00 to head to a local brewery.

A few days later an LT hit the headlines because he was an idiot and put out on social media his thoughts on minorities. Which wasn't good. And he was in charge of investigating complaints of racism by officers. This is a college town of 120K. These are good careers being thrown out the window. Salary isn't the problem.
 
Police in our area do 20 years service and are out on a full pension- going to break city but full pension. A lot of these guys start at 22-25. So full retired pension at 42 then can get another job.. good gig. But hard work. Mucho respect for someone willing to put their life on the line to keep dirt bags in line.
 
benyflyguy said:
Police in our area do 20 years service and are out on a full pension- going to break city but full pension. A lot of these guys start at 22-25. So full retired pension at 42 then can get another job.. good gig. But hard work. Mucho respect for someone willing to put their life on the line to keep dirt bags in line.
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You do know pilots have a far more risky job, as do fisherman, roofer’s, EMS, FD, etc
 
This thread is locked by MC vote. We did not feel that more productive conversation was going to come out of this given the arguments that have already transpired.
 
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