Cardinal Autopilot
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bnt83
Final Approach
I wouldn't even consider buying an autopilot for the next few years. There is so much happening right now that could really influence the prices. A few are trying to bring their "experimental aircraft only" solutions to the certified market. With any luck they will be bargains compared to what is available right now.
That all being said, avionics shop schedules could really impact labor pricing, especially as we get closer & closer to the year 2020 ADS-B deadline, their backlogs will be leverage for higher pricing.
PaulMillner
Line Up and Wait
I think he meant the 20, which is going for $7400 now. The 30 is pushing $12K.
JohnAJohnson
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I second what Brian said. TruTrak and Dynon (I think) are both working on full power autopilot STCs for the 172, and they are claiming the 177s will be right behind. Prices look to be around 3k-5k. Brittian, as you said, would be an option but they do have long waiting lists. The Cessna Navomatic (ARC) autopilots (from a salvage yard) would be an option but they would cost more than the 3k-5k mentioned for new systems. By the way, my Navomatic 300 (in my 74 177B) actually works great. Follows the heading bug for Heading Hold, follows a Nav signal (VOR or Localizer) from either Nav1 or Nav2, and follows the GPS track from my 430. Also has a turn knob for smooth turns up to standard rate. But my autopilot is the exception. Many of the Navomatics are worn out and would be expensive to fix.
Ravioli
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TruTrak and Trio are well in to the STC process. Dynon is done for the EFIS but has no official discussion of the AP servo STC's that I'm aware of. Off the record it's just a matter of time.
If you're only adding AP, TruTrak and Trio are the ones to watch.
Aside from watching for new product... OP said he only wanted a wing leveler. I'd suggest you do 2-axis. It won't cost "too much more", you'll love it, and so will your eventual buyer.
there are some used stec 30s around and a good dealer is hooked into there PRIVATE website and will use it if he knows you are not going for a new one.try conrad at the radio shop in wooster .most of the stuff is yellow taged .and would sell the parts to you so you can use your guy to install it. i just did a 172 not long ago for less than stated above. a very simple install. be carefull of the voltage requirement.
By the time you get the necessary actuators and jump through the hoops the manufacturer will require to certify it, you probably could get a reasonable deal on a new one.
bnt83
Final Approach
That's my understanding of typical business practices involving Stec equipment.
Brittain will at least sell you a kit with the installation data to put it in.
you must find one with a wiring harness ,servo,bracket, a install manual and a copy of the stc and 337. and A qualified guy to work with you .i did it for $5500. and alt hold can be added .most dealers wont take it on trade unless they can get all they need to sell it and they wont tear up the wiring harness, Now finding one for a 177b idk
bnt83
Final Approach
How do you get a new LOA to install the STC on a different airplane?
Ravioli
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You BUY it from S-tec, unfortunately. My understanding is S-Tec does their STC's by TAIL #, not make/model. Their stuff works well, but they are a PITA for the certified market.
"different aircraft" no learn how to read 172m take out reinstalled in same make and model.,. stc is by make and model not tail #,, a follow along if you will ,,a loa? wtf .. calling tom to explain how this **** works.
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jes, just trying to help this guy if he can find a used take out 177b stec 30 within the serial number bracket of his,, {13v vs 26} ac he can ,if he knows a a savvy avionics shop , it is done all the time . hence why there is a large trade in for working semi current equipment. i am done trying to help.
Ravioli
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Good that you are done "helping". Unfortunate that you are misinformed about S-Tec.
tell me how i am wrong . are you a ap/ia , an been in aviation for 45 years ? a lot of snarky kids on this site . someone bought his 177b by now if it was any good . so no problem. people love to run off people just trying to help on this forum every day. i suspect kids living in there mothers basement are the root cause .got to love the interwebs!! also did you call me a lyre for a 172 install i did a few months ago ,if so fu.
James331
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For the AP to be real world useful it'll also need Alt hold and GPSS at least.
Just curious, and I don't know too much about this, except I've bought some upgrades where the STC was written to my N number and SN, but how would a "savy" avionics shop get around that?
I mean shy of buying a STC from the maker or straight Photoshopping a phony STC, how do they take a STC for one N number and SN and apply it to another? Are they using a field approval based on the other plane or something? The FAAs down with that?
No dog on this fight, just curious
Just curious, and I don't know too much about this, except I've bought some upgrades where the STC was written to my N number and SN, but how would a "savy" avionics shop get around that?
I mean shy of buying a STC from the maker or straight Photoshopping a phony STC, how do they take a STC for one N number and SN and apply it to another? Are they using a field approval based on the other plane or something? The FAAs down with that?
No dog on this fight, just curious
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I wouldn't say that. Almost from the day my STEC was installed the pitch servos were recalled. I flew it around in single axis mode for months and it wasn't too bad. Elevator trim is a marvelous thing (my electric trim still worked as well, this is one thing that I really got used to as the trim wheel is a reach in my plane). While GPSS is great for approaches, on enroute stuff simple NAV tracking or even just heading mode works great.
james sorry for the poor writing in the above post .i was trying to say find one {a good takeout} that is proper fit for his serial # of the 177b he was looking to install it in. I think the 1976 model had alot of midyear changes not sure .
ircphoenix
En-Route
Everything I've read says that in order to install a salvaged STEC on a plane other than the plane it was originally installed on *requires an STC* that STEC would be more than happy to sell you for between 3-5k just for the STC.
The autopilots are specific to the airplane they are installed on. That's one of the ways (besides pricing their stuff astronomically) that STEC makes their money.
The autopilots are specific to the airplane they are installed on. That's one of the ways (besides pricing their stuff astronomically) that STEC makes their money.
Ravioli
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You, sir, are alone in thinking that S-Tec does not do their STC's by tail number.
I'm not a mechanic of any type. I do own S-Tec equipment and looked in to moving my Altitude Hold from my experimental to my Cardinal RG and that is how I became aware of their practices.
A couple of others here seem to agree with what I've stated. Pick your own sources, or your nose, for all I care.
all 4 parts of the system must be stc d and part numbers showing proper as shown in the install manual for the make and model of aircraft. never said you could just put any old salvage in a certified aircraft
bnt83
Final Approach
A letter of authorization (LOA) is issued by the STC holder typically to the shop/dealer/other installing the STC referencing the airplane owner/address and the make,model,serial # of the airplane it is being installed on. This is especially true for expensive mods where a lot of money was invested in creating the installation data and obtaining the STC. It may be a vague letter if the STC holder doesn't wish to send out a new letter for each new installation, some are downloadable from the STC holder's website.
STC holders may keep detailed records on which airplanes they authorized, that way when it becomes a smoking hole they might find it was never authorized for use on it. It also can be a reporting system to document issues with their product or notify recorded owners that there is an issue with it.
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bnt83
Final Approach
Believe it or not, some manufacturers even make their service bulletins the same way. Those that choose to write a master bulletin titled "Controlled Effectivity" or similar that lists every service bulletin they have and which serial numbers are authorized for them to be installed on. The only way to get them to list your serial number airplane on it for a bulletin you want to install is by buying their kit. That way you pay them for the engineering they invested to make it possible. That could something as simple as a software upgrade.
That's common practice in the transport category world.
That's common practice in the transport category world.
Ravioli
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Anyone else notice that this clown advised us to learn how to read? Perhaps "learn how to write" was the only reply necessary.
"different aircraft" no learn how to read 172m take out reinstalled in same make and model.,. stc is by make and model not tail #,, a follow along if you will ,,a loa? wtf .. calling tom to explain how this **** works."
"different aircraft" no learn how to read 172m take out reinstalled in same make and model.,. stc is by make and model not tail #,, a follow along if you will ,,a loa? wtf .. calling tom to explain how this **** works."
JohnAJohnson
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Not true. He stated he wants a wing leveler. My Roll Only autopilot in my Cardinal meets my needs fine. I usually only engage it when I'm at cruise and want to look at scenery, or look at charts, etc., and George holds roll attitude (or heading) just fine. The aircraft also maintains altitude fine during that time. As far as GPSS, sure it would be great, but required for "real world useful"?
thomasdr72
Pre-takeoff checklist
I installed the 2-axis (roll & yaw) Brittain stabilization system (CSA-1 / B-11 Accutrak) in my 172H about six years ago, and I love it. Dead simple, light, and the company is super friendly. They don't have an STC to add the Pitch axis (PC/AHII - Pitch Stabilization and Altitude Hold System) to the 172H, but they worked with me and bent over backwards to provide me just about everything that I needed to write up a Field Approval and get it blessed. Now, I'm sitting on the approved paperwork, and just waiting for my number to come up on the waiting list for the gear.
I bought the original CSA-1/B-11 system off of ebay for $350, I sent it to Brittain in Tulsa and they overhauled everything, added the missing components, built me a fresh installation kit with all fittings, hoses, brackets, cables, paperwork, etc. I think it cost me about $1850 total (install labor not included).
I bought the original CSA-1/B-11 system off of ebay for $350, I sent it to Brittain in Tulsa and they overhauled everything, added the missing components, built me a fresh installation kit with all fittings, hoses, brackets, cables, paperwork, etc. I think it cost me about $1850 total (install labor not included).
ircphoenix
En-Route
Damn! I need to go look at eBay! That's 1/3 the price of new!
I should have the Cardial added to the Trio A/P install kit STC in April or early May. I'll have a PMA for the Trio Pro Pilot at AirVenture. You can go up on Trio Avionics website, click on the STC link, and shoot me an email. I'll add you to the 177 list.
Paul Odum
Paul Odum
JohnAJohnson
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That's good news Paul. My 177B has the stock Navomatic 300 autopilot right now. Are there plans to include an installation kit for specific models?
bnt83
Final Approach
I am an A&P IA and have a 177 and a great friend and longtime customer has a 177B, I think he would be interested in one as long as him & I could do the labor as a field install, not a "dealer network install only" deal. My Brittain is working great but has no altitude hold and I'd be very interested in the stand-alone one that Trio has in the future, again if I could install it myself.
thomasdr72
Pre-takeoff checklist
The install it yourself option for A&Ps in the field is a big deal for me too... Dealer install only isn't an option really for me...
Century 1 single axis autopilot costs about 9k new. Mine works!
Caramon13
Pattern Altitude
I had an STEC 30 with alt hold in a Cherokee 180. Never had a problem with it (until I changed out my DG and the installer screwed up the gain settings).
STEC/Genesys Aerosystems was always easy to get a hold of on the phone.
STEC/Genesys Aerosystems was always easy to get a hold of on the phone.