Cant tell if good deal. 1st plane

Jr Hampton

Jr Hampton

Pre-Flight
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Oct 9, 2008
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Fay'nam
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Display name:
Jr Hampton
Yeah I know a plane is worth what whoever will pay but....

79' Cheetah, 0320 150hp, 2025 TT and engine time since new.
Garmin GMA 345 Audio Panel
Narco MK12D NAV COM
Narco 12D w/Glide Slope
Narco Nav121
Narco AT-150 Transponder
Centry1 autopilot
Apollo GX55 GPS.
Looks to me overhaul out of the gate + ADSB solution ? -15k o/h + 5 ADSB? 20k or 40k plane ?
 
It is a looker from photos. Seller asking mid 40's.. I'd feel like a jerk coming in at 25.. but..dont know what sellers expect.
 
LOL, yup, Told him I'd be a player at 30. He was not happy with my offer.
 
Welcome to the market of emotional sellers. I'm just gonna wait for the economy to force their hand. Inventory should blow up this summer, especially if this govt shutdown continues in earnest and tanks the GDP one quarter earlier than I was forecasting. Give this guy your contact info and offer and tell him to give ya a call when he's emotionally ready to deal. Otherwise I'd keep looking and low balling. Most of the stuff in online land is overpriced junk. Don't misunderstand, I dabble in "junk", I just don't do the overpriced part. The reality is this guy is gonna be holding on to that airplane for a while.
 
I agree with above. You will need to budget for an engine, out of the gate and ASDB out.
 
I found this to be the case with most Grumman owners I called when I was looking.
They seem to think their airplanes are worth more than they really are. They also seem to think their planes are worth more than the bank thinks they are worth.


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I'd keep looking... seems the owner hasn't put anything into this plane... Your first annual is gonna be a hummdinger! (on top of what you already know) you could easily wind up being into this plane for 60k or more...
 
When looking at planes, compare a bunch with what they need. You will eventually come up with an average price for a particular model.
In my case, it was the 310. The "Q" model averaged 135K even though some could be had for 50K.
The turnkey planes were about 135K and the lacking ones were around 50K. After doing everything to bring them up to speed, 135K was the magic number for the "Q"



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FWIW I paid mid 30's for '79 cheetah, 3000tt/600on the engine since overhaul, had **** radios and inop auto-pilot.
 
The avionics are obsolete. The 12D's are unreliable to begin with and unserviceable. Jepp just announced that the database for the GX55 has gotten too large for national coverage, so you'll have to pick east or west.

2000 hours is suspect (but so is 1000 hours on a infrequently flown plane). More investigation needs to be done.

If you're truly interested in Cheetahs or Tigers, I suggest a type-specific forum.
 
Thanks all ! Just beginning the "search" but not in earnest yet. This one just pooped up on a page and drew my interest. Cheetahs/Tigers, RV6A or 9A are what really floats my boat. Heck, I haven't slipped the surly bonds in over 2 years, so I gotta work on that first. But, always looking for "the one".
 
I agree with the others, its a $20'sk plane not a $40k plane. Run-out engine, 1980's avionics, and I bet the paint and interior are original too. You gave your offer, let it sit and in a month he might call you back. Keep on looking and dont look back, $40k or more seems to be in the Tiger range anyway no??

It could also very well be his wife is making him sell it. Price it high knowing you will not sell it. Ive seen that before!
 
Also plan for the engine overhaul costing more than 15k. I would say 20k at an absolute minumum.
 
Jr Hampton said:
LOL, yup, Told him I'd be a player at 30. He was not happy with my offer.
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It doesn't matter what is worth to him. I'd be wants more than it's worth to you, you're not his buyer. Maybe he finds a buyer at his price, maybe not. But I've learned the lesson in many different ways that I'm not offering or paying more than what it's worth to me.
 
You can buy a nice plane for $60,000. That is what you are getting into. So start searching for good $60,000 airplanes.
 
Wow, that is a ton for that plane.... And I’m one of those Grumman owners that probably thinks his Tiger is worth more than actual.

My Tiger with under 50 hours after a very reputable overhaul and less old equipment was not much more than his asking. I’d walk away.
 
Figure out the cost of equipment ,you will change out,plus engine overhaul. Do the math ,see if it is worth it to you. Make an offer.
 
When I was looking a dude wanted 60k for a Cherokee 180 that needed 40k of work.

He was unhappy when I offered him 20k. Weirdest thing.

Last I checked, the plane is still on the websites... and has been for the past few years.
 
Grum.Man said:
He will have it a while. Near run out engine, junk radios and auto pilot. I would expect in the 40's with a zero timed 160hp upgrade.
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^^^^^^^^
This. The suggested price would be with GNS430 and a mid time engine, maybe with HC STC. Other than the audio panel, the avionics are all well past their expiration date. The runout engine alone will be north of $20k in the very near future.
 
Do yourself a favor and go to the AOPA Vref page and put in the plane, TT, and equipage to get a rough evaluation of value when you start shopping so you know about what to expect for a particular model and condition. It's not perfect, but a good place to start.
 
Thanks again all. I've offered that is all I can do. And certainly not hung up on the plane so.. I'll be signing up for Vref when I get dead serious with searching. Maybe sooner if sweet deal pops up. Never know.
 
Jr Hampton said:
Thanks again all. I've offered that is all I can do. And certainly not hung up on the plane so.. I'll be signing up for Vref when I get dead serious with searching. Maybe sooner if sweet deal pops up. Never know.
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you can join AOPA, and vref is one of the perks. I haven't been a member for a few years, so I don't know if that's still the case.
 
Yes I'm a former member myself. lol. Will probably join once I get more active and actually flying again and or seriously looking for 1st plane, or need a hat, or new flight bag. or headset bag :) They do have some resources that could be useful.
 
Jr Hampton said:
It is a looker from photos. Seller asking mid 40's.. I'd feel like a jerk coming in at 25.. but..dont know what sellers expect.
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Yeah, I don't know how that can be a 40k plane with outdated avionics and a runout engine? If you were to buy it and put 25k into the engine, would it be a 65k airplane?

I call it 25-30. I don't know where he thinks the extra 10-15k comes from. He doesn't like the reality, so forget about him and move forward.

Maybe he'll find some sucker to sell it to.
 
Hi.
As others have mentioned, it's around 25K in value, on the upper most real value, and it's likely that it may have been advertised for less about 6 months ago.
The asking price of the used planes have gone out of normal envelope, mainly due, I believe, to Acft Brokers / Sales people that tell people that it's worth so much to get the listing. After about 6 months the owners know that they will not get pull the listing and sell it themselves for a reasonable price. I know of at least one that did that.
Asking some of the owner / sellers they will tell you that most of the calls come from Brokers / Sales people to the point that they will no longer answer the phone.
See if you can find something similar that sold about a year ago, and get a better idea of the value, a $25K offer does not sound way out of a starting point, if you have the cash, do an easy deal, in my opinion. A good Prebuy is a Must.

Jr Hampton said:
It is a looker from photos. Seller asking mid 40's.. I'd feel like a jerk coming in at 25.. but..dont know what sellers expect.
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The previous owner of my plane was asking too much. I just contacted him and told him that I could not afford more than X$ for his plane and to please contact me should he reconsider his price.

Nearly eight months later, the airplane was still at his name in the aircraft registry, so I sent him a nice Merry Christmas email and btw did he sell his aircraft? And that's how I ended purchasing the plane at a price at which I could afford to make the upgraded I wanted without being upside down on the airplane should I have to resell it within a few years.
 
There's a lot of hair on this cat. I doubt seller drops below 40. I passed.

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CRQFlier said:
There's a lot of hair on this cat. I doubt seller drops below 40. I passed.

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You are correct....he has a Tiger also. Not hard up he will sell it eventually but in no hurry. Not gonna get it for 25 or even 35.
 
I owned a '79 Tiger and loved it. A few years ago when I got back into flying I went looking for one. Looked and looked and looked. Virtually every one for sale had the old Narco stuff, minimal if any a/p, etc. Nothing under 60K. A few that were updated had asking prices close to 100K. I bought a Bonanza for that money. Don't know if it's a thing with the Grumman crowd or the same with other planes but it got beyond frustrating.
 
I’m feeling the pain but a Cheetah fits my needs. I’m retiring and don’t want the maint headache. Fixed gear, fixed pitch prop and easy to maintain and don’t cost a fortune, will actually do over 105 knots. Something my kids and grandkids can learn to fly in and I can make 4 or 5 1200 mi cross country trips per year. I’m extremely picky so it makes it even harder. All lack avionics so I gave up on that. I may just have to build what I want but everyone wants an arm and a leg for one with a run out engine. Yes they may go to 3000 hrs but you going to let me pull the cylinders and check it out? So it’s like asking me to take the gamble on it for 25k. Nope not going too. And that Saavy aviation knucklehead has some video out about going over TBO all the sellers are referring to that like the shouldn’t take a hit for run out engines. Of course none of them are A&P’s with 45 yrs turning wrenches. Maybe I’ll get lucky.
 
1979, so the engine is way past calendar TBO, and it has a panel full of ballast and boat anchors. . .still, if that's the market value for one in that shape, I'd have to start considering other models. . .
 
Sundancer said:
1979, so the engine is way past calendar TBO, and it has a panel full of ballast and boat anchors. . .still, if that's the market value for one in that shape, I'd have to start considering other models. . .
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LoL yeah, checked out older Cardinals FG, fixed pitch.....Go slower for more money than a Tiger. I get ya on the market. I complain but I’ll buy when I find what I want.
 
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