can you 'undeclare' an emergency?

35 AoA said:
Just declare a minor emergency. Much easier to recover from :)
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Perhaps the Navy has developed the term "minor emergency" since I left that service in 1978, but otherwise I don't know of any distinction in any pilot communication guide between a "minor emergency" and any other type of emergency. Either it's an emergency, or it's not an emergency -- no gradations or shades of gray in the use of that term other than the defined subsets of "distress", indicated by "Mayday", and urgency, indicated by "PAN" (both of which are still an "emergency")
 
Back to the original point, I once declared an emergency for icing, and once I'd made my planned descent and was out of the icing conditions, I so informed ATC and the emergency was over.

I did get asked to call the FAA when I landed... Where I ended up talking to the QA guy at Potomac Tracon to be sure I'd been satisfied with the service I'd gotten. Never any "paperwork" or FSDO follow-up. There's probably a longer version of this story in a POA thread somewhere.
 
Ron Levy said:
Perhaps the Navy has developed the term "minor emergency" since I left that service in 1978, but otherwise I don't know of any distinction in any pilot communication guide between a "minor emergency" and any other type of emergency. Either it's an emergency, or it's not an emergency -- no gradations or shades of gray in the use of that term other than the defined subsets of "distress", indicated by "Mayday", and urgency, indicated by "PAN" (both of which are still an "emergency")
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I guess my joke wasn't that obvious :)

Since you mentioned it though, you can maybe muddy the waters a little with a "min fuel" dec. I'm not sure what that actually means to a controller when they hear it, other than the book answer (can accept no undue delay, etc).....but in terms of handling, does it give you priority or not? If I understand it correctly, it does not, at least in a legally binding sense. But I have also seen it absolutely give priority handling on most occasions where I have heard it used. If there were anything close to a declaration of "minor emergency" I would say this would be it, specific to fuel related emergencies.
 
35 AoA said:
I guess my joke wasn't that obvious :)

Since you mentioned it though, you can maybe muddy the waters a little with a "min fuel" dec. I'm not sure what that actually means to a controller when they hear it, other than the book answer (can accept no undue delay, etc).....but in terms of handling, does it give you priority or not?
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Perhaps this from the ATC handbook will help.
2−1−8. MINIMUM FUEL
If an aircraft declares a state of “minimum fuel,”​
inform any facility to whom control jurisdiction is​
transferred of the minimum fuel problem and be alert​
for any occurrence which might delay the aircraft​
en route.​
NOTE​
−​
Use of the term “minimum fuel” indicates recognition by​
a pilot that his/her fuel supply has reached a state where,​
upon reaching destination, he/she cannot accept any undue​
delay. This is not an emergency situation but merely an​
advisory that indicates an emergency situation is possible​
should any undue delay occur. A minimum fuel advisory​
does not imply a need for traffic priority. Common sense​
and good judgment will determine the extent of assistance​
to be given in minimum fuel situations. If, at any time, the​
remaining usable fuel supply suggests the need for traffic​
priority to ensure a safe landing, the pilot should declare​
an emergency and report fuel remaining in minutes.
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Min Fuel is perhaps the least understood phrase by ATC. I've used it a half dozen times and every time ATC gets ramped up and provides priority handling and or questions along the lines of an emergency...souls on board, fob, ect.
 
35 AoA said:
I guess my joke wasn't that obvious :)

Since you mentioned it though, you can maybe muddy the waters a little with a "min fuel" dec. I'm not sure what that actually means to a controller when they hear it, other than the book answer (can accept no undue delay, etc).....but in terms of handling, does it give you priority or not? If I understand it correctly, it does not, at least in a legally binding sense. But I have also seen it absolutely give priority handling on most occasions where I have heard it used. If there were anything close to a declaration of "minor emergency" I would say this would be it, specific to fuel related emergencies.
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No priority but you know if you delay them it'll most likely end in an emergency.

I was on approach one day when the WX was below VFR and was running GCAs. One of the Hornets (VMFA-122) shot thru final because the final controller lost radar on the dogleg. He gave the guy back to me and I immediately began to box him out for another PAR. I got "Nickelxx min fuel, request visual approach." I told him that I couldn't clear him because of the weather. He immediately came back with a request for a contact. Crap! Nobody requests that. I knew his fuel situation was going to be emergency if I vectored back out so I cleared him for a contact to a crossing runway. Not exactly by the definition but he agreed to the restriction. Tower ended up sending him around because they had an H-46 on the runway. The Hornet immediately declared emergency fuel. Tower then gave "abandon approach to the right" for a section on the PAR to make room for the emergency. Those two then declared emergency fuel. What a fiasco!:redface:
 
Captain said:
Min Fuel is perhaps the least understood phrase by ATC. I've used it a half dozen times and every time ATC gets ramped up and provides priority handling and or questions along the lines of an emergency...souls on board, fob, ect.
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yeah, that is what I was getting at. The quoted FAR has always been my understanding, but in practice, it typically yields a different more serious response.
 
Velocity173 said:
No priority but you know if you delay them it'll most likely end in an emergency.

I was on approach one day when the WX was below VFR and was running GCAs. One of the Hornets (VMFA-122) shot thru final because the final controller lost radar on the dogleg. He gave the guy back to me and I immediately began to box him out for another PAR. I got "Nickelxx min fuel, request visual approach." I told him that I couldn't clear him because of the weather. He immediately came back with a request for a contact. Crap! Nobody requests that. I knew his fuel situation was going to be emergency if I vectored back out so I cleared him for a contact to a crossing runway. Not exactly by the definition but he agreed to the restriction. Tower ended up sending him around because they had an H-46 on the runway. The Hornet immediately declared emergency fuel. Tower then gave "abandon approach to the right" for a section on the PAR to make room for the emergency. Those two then declared emergency fuel. What a fiasco!:redface:
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yeah, same thing we always ended up with in oceana, fallon, or (very occasionally) at miramar when the wx dropped more than expected. Figure 2-3 sections at a minimum out in the area, all coming back with basically VFR or light IFR reserves and suddenly you are #5-6 in the conga line when approach can no longer get the overhead open. Lots of ways to avoid being there, but when you are, it helps to have controllers who realize the seriousness of the situation sooner rather than later (which I think most home field controllers do)
 
35 AoA said:
yeah, same thing we always ended up with in oceana, fallon, or (very occasionally) at miramar when the wx dropped more than expected. Figure 2-3 sections at a minimum out in the area, all coming back with basically VFR or light IFR reserves and suddenly you are #5-6 in the conga line when approach can no longer get the overhead open. Lots of ways to avoid being there, but when you are, it helps to have controllers who realize the seriousness of the situation sooner rather than later (which I think most home field controllers do)
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Plenty of times I knew the WX was good enough for the overhead but the WX dudes wouldn't update it with a special. Then you're forced to give GCAs to guys who don't need it like in the example I gave. Of course this was back before AWOS so now the WX gets updated more frequently.
 
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Here's a hysterical woman pilot "un declaring"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6IrclNLxKt8

After listening to her come unglued, she probably should have landed at the nearest airport, if for anything, to step outside of the plane and get head back together.
 
that was painful to listen to. Talk about saying 1 million words on the radio, none of which enhanced anyone's SA to her situation. She kind of sounds like someone who has watched waaaay too many movies of people talking on the radio, and thinks that is the "voice" you need to have.
 
Commercial pilot delivering a Caravan for the first time. Didn't understand the booted versions limitations. Wordy but stalled out in IMC wouldn't be any fun. I listen to a guy get into a spin in IMC and was screaming, "I'm going to die" about 20 times.
 
The only thing in that video that had me shaking my head is that she still wanted to continue on course at an altitude where the OAT was 0C, without asking about precip or icing pireps up ahead. Luckily the controller had her best interests in mind, determined the FZLVL and cleared her down below it.

I think I would be shaking too if I'd encountered severe icing and experienced a complete loss of control. I hope I would have the sense to divert, land, chill for a bit, and get a thorough weather update before trying to go on.

I wonder how that flight turned out in the end. Presumably she made it.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Commercial pilot delivering a Caravan for the first time. Didn't understand the booted versions limitations. Wordy but stalled out in IMC wouldn't be any fun. I listen to a guy get into a spin in IMC and was screaming, "I'm going to die" about 20 times.
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And die I'm sure he did. Panic combined with fear of death is typically a self fulfilling issue.
 
Years ago, before I started flying, I listened to a recording of a VFR into IMC situation.

The controller was a pilot and was trying to talk the pilot out of the clouds.

It all went well for a couple of minutes until suddenly the pilot comes on the air screaming "Help, help, help".....

The controller asked if he was in a spin. The pilot replied "I think so.... help..!!"

The controller was telling the pilot "just let go of the controls", the pilot would reply "help me.... help, help, help."

This went on for a few more seconds, then the controller says "Cessna 123 lost radar contact."

"Cessna 123 over." "Cessna 123 do you hear, over." "Cessna 123 over." "Cessna 123 if you can hear me just click your mic." "Cessna 123." "Cessna 123." Silence

Really sobering.

I thought about that recording before I started learning to fly and almost changed my mind.
 
azure said:
The only thing in that video that had me shaking my head is that she still wanted to continue on course at an altitude where the OAT was 0C, without asking about precip or icing pireps up ahead. Luckily the controller had her best interests in mind, determined the FZLVL and cleared her down below it.

I think I would be shaking too if I'd encountered severe icing and experienced a complete loss of control. I hope I would have the sense to divert, land, chill for a bit, and get a thorough weather update before trying to go on.

I wonder how that flight turned out in the end. Presumably she made it.
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I understand she did. The Caravan has had a lot published about icing performance with boots. If she was at 80 and still stalled, push the nose over, keep the speed up and fly around in warmer air until the airframe clears, then land and take a break. I agree, her actions didn't make sense.

One other thing, she was probably indicating ~140ish in cruise. That airspeed bleeding off should have been a wake up call with 675hp.
 
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James331 said:
Here's a hysterical woman pilot "un declaring"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6IrclNLxKt8

After listening to her come unglued, she probably should have landed at the nearest airport, if for anything, to step outside of the plane and get head back together.
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Ah, that's it! Years ago I put a CRM course together and I included that audio. It doesn't really have anything to do with CRM as she was single pilot but I found it in my research and just couldn't NOT include it!

I hope she landed and ripped up her certificate. Gives female pilots a bad name.
 
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