Can you land a Cessna gracefully in a gusty crosswind?

[Jay Honeck]

I am not upset with you, and I didn't think you were attacking me... I have a thicker skin than that... I was simply commenting on what appeared to be your take on Henning's comments.

Obesity is a real problem in South Texas, for reasons that escape me. Corpus Christi was named the "Fattest City in America" in 2011 (they've slipped to, like, 8th place in 2012), so when we go off-island to shop, we see a plethora of very rotund folks.

The good news: Mary and I are positively svelte-looking in this crowd.

Most are just fat, and I'm fine with that. What bothers me are (as Ben describes) the increasing number of obese folks who ride scooters in every store, from grocery to home improvement -- while parking they're jacked-up pickup trucks in the handicapped stalls. That's just B.S.

Another problem: As with the situation at Oshkosh, I cannot stand having people riding scooters (or golf carts, in OSH) up on my heels, and it is happening more and more. Last month I almost killed a guy on a scooter at Lowe's, as I was wheeling 40 pieces of trim molding to the checkout line, when he came scooting around a corner and almost skewered himself on my eye-level (for him) stack of 8' molding...

Another problem in my business is that hotel rooms are not designed for 300+ pound people. I've had toilet seats broken, toilets rocked off their floor mounts, and hotel furniture broken by these behemoths -- and what's funny/sad is that THEY act like WE have done something wrong.

I have nothing against being fat -- it's a personal choice, after all, and I'm as libertarian as they come -- but when fat people start demanding special treatment, the line must and will be drawn.

To bring this back to where we started, I have personally flown a 350 pound guy in my Pathfinder -- a Cherokee 235. The main problem for him wasn't getting in and out -- it was the seat belts. He eventually got one of my new belts extended to fit, but it was a chore and it barely fit. Otherwise, the only other problem was that I worried about the Piper seats tearing through the floor of the plane, since I don't think they were ever certified to handle that much weight.

 

[Gubbins]

In the good old days, when we had to run away from predators and there were no scooters, there were no fatties... They would have been eaten.

 

[wabower]

That's the case with any airplane, as well as dancing with a bear. It quits when it's ready, not when you're ready.

I've found that if I don't force the plane down things tend to work out. The more I fight the worse it gets. Just fly the plane

 

[Henning]

That's the trick to landing, making those two points coincide.

 

[stapler101]

I learned in a cherokee 140 and then bought a 182.
My instructor still argues with me that there is no difference in cross wind landing but I strongly disagree!
The low wing is much easier to me.
Maybe if I had the 8000-10000 hours that he has in everything from a cub to a 737 (and he flies a helicopter) I would not notice a difference.

 

[denverpilot]

So all the folks saying the Pipers are easier are advocating learning crosswinds in Cessnas so you learn how to do it right, and the landings in the Pipers later will be no-brainers, right?



I always figured the only difference was that in the Cessna when you screw up you can glance out the side window and actually SEE $50 worth of tire being scuffed off on the pavement while you try to get your cussing and the aircraft under control.

In the low-wings, you can only feel it in your butt and hear it.

Makes it feel better as your wallet gets lighter, even though it only takes one second in real-time.

 

[wabower]

For you, where does the "this one is harder than that one" first occur?

Descent

Level off

Flare

Touchdown

Landing attitude

Tracking Centerline

Other

Is it a "feel" thing or a mechanical thing? Are the results roughly the same with the primary difference that you feel you've worked harder in the high wing, or is the quality of the low-wing landings better? If so, how do you describe the difference(s)?

I learned in a cherokee 140 and then bought a 182.
My instructor still argues with me that there is no difference in cross wind landing but I strongly disagree!
The low wing is much easier to me.
Maybe if I had the 8000-10000 hours that he has in everything from a cub to a 737 (and he flies a helicopter) I would not notice a difference.

 

[alaskaflyer]

The worst landing I ever had in the PA-12 I had over 300hrs in it (in less than 3 months) and it was perfectly calm (a new experience in that plane as typically 18kts on my pipeline routes was considered a calm day). I must have landed that sucker 6 times on my way down the runway.

I earned my private in gusty western Arizona. My first calm wind landing was several flights after my checkride.

Throttle elevator rudder. Need all three in equal measure when landing a Cessna high wing in gusty conditions.

 

[Henning]

I learned in a cherokee 140 and then bought a 182.
My instructor still argues with me that there is no difference in cross wind landing but I strongly disagree!
The low wing is much easier to me.
Maybe if I had the 8000-10000 hours that he has in everything from a cub to a 737 (and he flies a helicopter) I would not notice a difference.

The difference as I notice it is one of information as much as anything. With a low wing I maintain my windward peripheral vision and that is key in gauging lateral motion; a high wing cuts off some of that information and the brain scrambles to relearn a judgement process without that perspective. Do you have 100hrs in the 182 yet?

BTW, most people with a 182 would do well to carry a healthy box of tools around in the back just for ballast.

 

[Skylane81E]

For you, where does the "this one is harder than that one" first occur?

Descent

Level off

Flare

Touchdown

Landing attitude

Tracking Centerline

Other

Is it a "feel" thing or a mechanical thing? Are the results roughly the same with the primary difference that you feel you've worked harder in the high wing, or is the quality of the low-wing landings better? If so, how do you describe the difference(s)?

Bolded where I feel the difference, but once again I think we are seeing the effect of different airfoils not different wing placements.

 

[onwards]

Flying a 172 yesterday - 21G30 about 40 deg off to the left for one landing, 16G25 about 50 deg to the right on another, and the final one was 18G30 40 deg to the left... best was the last (classic touch on the left drop right then nose aligned with centerline), but they were all soft. The second one I was pointing about 10 deg right of centerline, so had to correct quickly after touchdown.

It was a beautiful and windy day in the bay area!

 

[alfadog]

Flying a 172 yesterday - 21G30 about 40 deg off to the left for one landing, 16G25 about 50 deg to the right on another, and the final one was 18G30 40 deg to the left... best was the last (classic touch on the left drop right then nose aligned with centerline), but they were all soft. The second one I was pointing about 10 deg right of centerline, so had to correct quickly after touchdown.

It was a beautiful and windy day in the bay area!

Sounds like you done good

 

[onwards]

Sounds like you done good

Thank you. Yeah, felt like I was in the zone. I had pax the whole way through, so it wasn't even just me; heck, I even got a "nice landing" from the guy who came in right before me on one of them, (oddly enough, the second one which I sort-of botched) and a similarly cheerful message from tower on the last one (the creampuff textbook one, left-right-nose on center with close to max structural). Funny thing is I must have looked like a drunken sailor coming down on some of these with those gusts.

I betcha there is no way in heck I can make it happen again... but it sure felt nice to be in the cockpit!