Can you get IR without VOR/ILS receivers?

[Mongoose Aviator]

Do you understand that his opinion determines that an ASR can’t be used on a lot of checkrides?

I completely understand that his opinion will be the ultimate deciding factor for all of the checkrides for which he is the DPE. Outside of that, his signature clearly indicates that he is providing his opinion and not speaking for the FAA.

I have no doubt that was the intent of his post and he was in no way implying that he speaks for the FAA.

 

[MauleSkinner]

[QUOTE="Mongoose Aviator, post: 3378304, member: 53571]
I have no doubt that was the intent of his post and he was in no way implying that he speaks for the FAA.[/QUOTE]
Do you understand that his statement may also be a reflection of guidance that the FAA has given?

 

[Palmpilot]

Do you understand that his statement may also be a reflection of guidance that the FAA has given?

If the FAA has given such guidance, it would be nice if they would actually publish it!

 

[Ryan F.]

I completely understand that his opinion will be the ultimate deciding factor for all of the checkrides for which he is the DPE. Outside of that, his signature clearly indicates that he is providing his opinion and not speaking for the FAA.

I have no doubt that was the intent of his post and he was in no way implying that he speaks for the FAA.

That is correct. I'm not employed by, nor do I speak for the FAA. My voice carries no more weight than anyone else's. As a designee, I represent the Administrator within an extremely narrow scope, which is airman certification. As I interpret the guidance I'm given (and it does occasionally require interpretation) I apply my experience and overall body of knowledge to how I perform my role. In the case of this message board thread, I'm comfortable with my position and have nothing more to add.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If the FAA has given such guidance, it would be nice if they would actually publish it!

Unfortunately the ACSs are a place where they do a fair amount of “when we say this, we actually mean…” during examiner training that they don’t publish.

 

[Palmpilot]

I guess the only solution is to hope that whatever CFII you're using knows what the local DPEs expect to see. Either that, or be prepared for the most conservative interpretation of what constitutes a navigation system.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I guess the only solution is to hope that whatever CFII you're using knows what the local DPEs expect to see. Either that, or be prepared for the most conservative interpretation of what constitutes a navigation system.

Actual communication with the DPE will resolve a lot of these questions.

 

[Mongoose Aviator]

I guess the only solution is to hope that whatever CFII you're using knows what the local DPEs expect to see.

Actual communication with the DPE will resolve a lot of these questions.

100% Agree with both. Either the CFII or somebody who recently used that DPE or yourself.
I touch base with my DPE in advance.
No benefit to being surprised over expectations.

 

[somorris]

The problem I see with checking with your intended DPE is that there are precedents where the FAA has negated checkrides given by a particular DPE. Here we are on page 4 of this thread and still trying to clarify. It would be nice if the FAA would jump in and remove any doubt!

 

[midlifeflyer]

That is correct. I'm not employed by, nor do I speak for the FAA. My voice carries no more weight than anyone else's. As a designee, I represent the Administrator within an extremely narrow scope, which is airman certification. As I interpret the guidance I'm given (and it does occasionally require interpretation) I apply my experience and overall body of knowledge to how I perform my role. In the case of this message board thread, I'm comfortable with my position and have nothing more to add.

FWIW, a position well-founded in the Appendix which uses aircraft systems in all of the examples.

But, after 129 posts, to me the answer is really simple. The first page inside the ACS says


Just write to them and ask. Flight Standards recently liberalized the range of options for the IFR dual cross country to fit modern reality. Perhaps they are doing or will do the same for the ACS.

 

[tsts4]

The simple solution is to look at the available approaches in your area and see how you can comply with the ACS for the numbers and types of approaches. Make sure the plane you are planning to take the test in is appropriately equipped--problem solved. Trying to figure out innovative ways (eg PAR/ASR) to fulfil the ACS requirements is in general wasted effort IMO.

 

[Ryan F.]

The simple solution is to look at the available approaches in your area and see how you can comply with the ACS for the numbers and types of approaches. Make sure the plane you are planning to take the test in is appropriately equipped--problem solved. Trying to figure out innovative ways (eg PAR/ASR) to fulfil the ACS requirements is in general wasted effort IMO.

Correct. It's not really possible to accommodate the skill elements (ref: IR.VI.A.S3, IR.VI.A.S12) of Task VI.A. (Nonprecision Approach) utilizing a PAR or ASR approach... nor is it an appropriate selection per Appendix 7's guidance to use "navigation aids". Further, the approach selections are made by the evaluator, which means that means you'd have to find one willing to forego all of the straightforward guidance on this subject.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The simple solution is to look at the available approaches in your area and see how you can comply with the ACS for the numbers and types of approaches. Make sure the plane you are planning to take the test in is appropriately equipped--problem solved. Trying to figure out innovative ways (eg PAR/ASR) to fulfil the ACS requirements is in general wasted effort IMO.

Absolutely. The simplest solution is to not answer the question raised in the thread at all.