Can my starter freeze?

jd21476

jd21476

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jd21476
Im at the airport and the temp is 28 degrees. When I press the start button on my Comanche with the O-360 all I get is a whirring. Can my starter be frozen?
 
In 28F weather? No it’s not frozen.

Check the owners manual on your specific starter. I think you’ll be surprised to learn that it can operate in some pretty extreme temperature ranges.
 
well my starter works in -20 F, i know for a fact, check if the starter tooth (or whatever its called) is stuck or not, it happened to me once, if so, bump it with something and see if it comes out and engages.
 
I hope my starter didnt decide to quit and leave me in the middle of no where on a x-country
 
that can happen in cold and little bit of moisture, the easy fix in my case was to spray some lubricant and hit it with something. then when you are back in your home base get an A&P to look into it

Edit: i had to change my starter down the road
 
The starter bendix gear could stick with the cold making lubricants thicker or getting some ice in there. I'd also check the battery, last time I had something like this happen it ended up in a battery replacement. If the battery is weak you can get a situation where it doesn't spin the starter fast enough for the bendix to engage.
 
get someone to jump ya, it might be a weak cold soaked battery. Another reason I prefer 14V airplanes.
 
Lycoming starters do that. They use an inertial starter bendix that screws itself forward into the flywheel gear when the starter starts turning. The screw arrangement is supposed to be lubricated with dry silicone spray lube, and nothing else. Mechanics and some owners shoot LPS or some other oil in there that stiffens as it accumulates dust and mixes with water to form sticky sludge, and when the weather gets cooler that gunk stiffens and the bendix can't slide forward on the screw and engage the flywheel. You'd be better off with no lube at all in that case. Getting the sludge out is almost impossible without removing the starter and disassembling the front end of it.

I always used the silicone spray as per the manual and never had a starter stick on any of the flight school airplanes.

If the battery is so weak that it can't engage a clean bendix, it's too weak to start anything. My bet is a gunked-up bendix.

Edit: Replace it with a Sky-tec starter. They use a solenoid to engage the gear, not inertia.
 
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The battery is new and seems to have enough juice. What kind if lubricant spay should I use for now just to be able to get home?
 
If you hear a whirring sound then the starter is working but the drive is not engaging. The effect of cold WX might be causing any oil to be too viscous for your drive to engage. I do not know your system as I have a TCM engine.
 
jd21476 said:
The battery is new and seems to have enough juice. What kind if lubricant spay should I use for now just to be able to get home?
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If @Dan Thomas is correct (and in my limited experience he is in fact on the right track), you need a solvent, not a lubricant to get the gear sliding up to the flywheel gear. I'd give WD-40 a try BUT make sure to have your A&P properly clean and lube it when you get home.

-Skip
 
Corrosion x works well...I have had a similar occurrence in the past...in an emergency you can manually engage the starter with a screw driver with all power off and it will stay locked into the fly wheel until you start it. Easy to get to on some airplanes but don't know about yours.
 
If you have the original starter with the Bendix gear, these are prone to sticking as they accumulate dirt. The Bendix gear is a clever device that self-extends when it is spun to engage the teeth on your flywheel. Unfortunately, the starter gear is exposed to the elements so it will eventually get crudded up and refuse to extend. BTDT. The Bendix gear may need to be cleaned and lubed. If it is lubed incorrectly (say, spraying it with oil or WD-40), it will simply attract more dirt and grit. When one gets tired of servicing it repeatedly, and it fails more and more frequently, one can consider replacing the starter with a SkyTec unit which doesn't have said Bendix gear. I've had my SkyTec for over 15 years with zero issues. The SkyTec has far more torque than the original equipment starter.
 
Well, I believe the starter is shot so unfortuanely I have to leave the plane in Northern Nevada and take an American Airlines flight home.
 
jd21476 said:
Well, I believe the starter is shot so unfortuanely I have to leave the plane in Northern Nevada and take an American Airlines flight home.
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That's a bit extreme.....It's an O-360. Shove it in a heated hangar to warm the engine up a bit then pull it outside and have someone prop start it for you that is comfortable doing so. Not a big deal....and something I've done more than once to retrieve rental airplanes with broken starters.
 
Did you try preheating the engine compartment? If what everybody says is true, maybe getting it all warmed up will shake it out for 1 more start.
 
So its now 60 degrees outside and still nothing and it just whirrs. I spoke to a few people at the small FBO and none of the feel comfortable hand propping a three blade prop
 
No one volunteering to sit in the plane to hold the brakes and work the throttle while you hand prop it?
 
jd21476 said:
So its now 60 degrees outside and still nothing and it just whirrs. I spoke to a few people at the small FBO and none of the feel comfortable hand propping a three blade prop
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Have you tried giving the bendix a good couple taps? You'll probably be able to unstick it...

Worst case overnight a new starter, bolt it on in the morning, and you're back in business.
 
Yeah, there was only one guy here and he didnt feel comfortable hand propping a three blade prop
 
Where is Northern Nevada are you?
 
Yeah, I even bought a hammer to smack it with.

Im in Winnemucca (KWMC)
 
@klr94ss is nearby. Maybe he can help.
It was pretty cold last night. Everything got cold soaked. Being 60 outside now doesn’t mean everything is warmed up.
 
Tie the tail and chock a wheel and hand prop it. I have flown hundreds of hours with airplane that never ever had a starter I you do not know (you really should) how have someone do it for or you or better yet teach you. Don't need no stinkin starter!
 
I appreciate all the help but I am now on my way to Reno to fly home commercial. I found a mechanic who will do the install once I get the starter shipped to the FBO. What kind of starter should I buy?
 
jd21476 said:
Yeah, I even bought a hammer to smack it with.

Im in Winnemucca (KWMC)
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Wow Winnemucca and I have a history. I blew a head gasket in my classic Alfa Romeo going from NY to San Francisco. Had to hitch a ride to Reno to pick up a U haul truck and after driving it back, figured out how to get the car in the truck and drive everything to SF for repair.

But getting to your problem, I had the same problem several times. I got tired of the Bendix problems and ultimately got the Skytech.

But one time on a cold Roanoke VA ramp enroute to New Orleans, I used a screwdriver to push the bendix gear to engage the flywheel, as was described above. Once it starts, the gear should retract on its shaft.

Also, another time, my starter actually died on the ramp at KLBE enroute to Ohio for Thanksgiving. I called my IA back home and he next day shipped a used starter to the A&P here for the quick an easy install on the Friday after Thanksgiving. I picked up the plane on the rental car drive back from Ohio. When back home, my IA installed the Skytech.
 
Just give me the plane, I'll take care of it so you don't need to worry about that starter, totally take it off your hands for you, for free!
 
Installing the Skytec involves an STC, a weight and balance amendment, an equipment list amendment, and some fooling with the front baffling for clearance. The original cable might also be a bit too short. Make sure that the mechanic is willing to do all that.

Getting WD-40 into the right place is difficult. The sticky part is way back behind that bendix, and it's covered by the bendix when retracted, as yours is. Getting silicone spray onto the right parts involves bumping the starter to get the drive engaged, and the engagement locks will hold it there. You then spray the silicone up and forward through the hole in the bottom of the front casting on the starte, rotating the prop a bit to turn the starter to get silicone on all the spiral thread teeth. Or do like I did: I joined teogther two of those little red spray tubes (that come with WD-40) to make a long tube and warmed one end so I could bend the last 1/4" down 90°to reach over the bendix from the top front and get the spray on that spiral.

I wish maintenance people would read the manuals and understand why bad stuff happens. Many of these stupidly inconvenient things are a result of bad maintenance practices. Sticky bendixes are only one. Failed alternators are another common thing, due almost entirely to running it until the brushes are completely worn out and the brush springs trash the rotor slip rings. The failure and destruction of the alternator wouldn't happen if the alternator was opened up for its 500-hour inspections. As per many maintenance manuals. Magnetos are another item often run until they decide to retire at some airport a long way from home. And vacuum pumps. And flap jackscrew trravel limit microswitches that fail so the flaps won't move because the switches are full of oil and gunk from folks hosing LPS on the flap jackscrew. The manual tells you to wipe a bit of #10 oil on that screw with a rag. Just a film. Anything more is a waste and causes those switch problems.
 
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I assume by this point you have checked you battery voltage and tried a jump start?
 
I had this happen to me on the Lance once. I figured it wasn't throwing the gear because it was cold. We were in the middle of nowhere. So...myself and my two sons took turns just putting our bare hand on the starter until we got too cold. Then the next guy would take over. After about 10 minutes...it started right up.
 
You can pull the Bendix out on that engine engaging it into the flywheel with a screw driver...it will stay there and then get in the plane and start it. It will disengage when it starts...did this with my Arrow several times prior to getting a new starter...lubricant worked most of the time but finally after the third or fourth time I gave up.
 
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