Can I throw a friend out of the plane?

Areeda

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Areeda
I was asked this question and I don't know the answer.

What are the restrictions, if any, for a passenger who is not charged any money to parachute from your airplane?

I assume, we would need a plane we can remove a door to make it physically possible.

Joe
 
Provided you take appropriate precautions against hitting things on the ground...your friend could be considered an "object", unless of course she's female, in which case I would never consider "objectifying a woman":no:
 
I would presume you to have the physical capability to throw a friend out of your plane. I, however, probably would not.

Sorry, I have nothing useful to add to this thread. :)
 
I was asked this question and I don't know the answer.

What are the restrictions, if any, for a passenger who is not charged any money to parachute from your airplane?

I assume, we would need a plane we can remove a door to make it physically possible.

Joe


FAR 105 would be a good starting point.
 
If your planes POH includes provisions for flight with the door removed, you are covered from that end. Otherwise, you need an STC for that.
 
If your planes POH includes provisions for flight with the door removed, you are covered from that end. Otherwise, you need an STC for that.

One of the planes Joe actually flies is the T28 in his avatar and I suspect that's the one he's contemplating "throwing a friend out of". No need to remove doors or obtain an STC, just slide the canopy back, unfasten the seat belt (chute wearing pax only), roll upside down and maintain altitude.

And Joe, when I first saw your thread title, I was tempted to reply with "if you're bigger than the friend" and since you're bigger than most chances are you "could".

P.S. there could be some insurance issues too.
 
And Joe, when I first saw your thread title, I was tempted to reply with "if you're bigger than the friend" and since you're bigger than most chances are you "could".
When I first saw the title of the thread I was remembering another thread where there was some kind of conflict between the owners of one of Joe's planes. :D
 
One of the planes Joe actually flies is the T28 in his avatar and I suspect that's the one he's contemplating "throwing a friend out of". No need to remove doors or obtain an STC, just slide the canopy back, unfasten the seat belt (chute wearing pax only), roll upside down and maintain altitude.


Does the T28 have this procedure in the POH or somewhere in the military documentation ? I would be concerned about the canopy getting blown out of it's frame or damage during subsequent attempts to slide it back forward (is the pax in the rear seat ?).
 
What type a/c, Joe?
Right now it's just a question, no plans yet.
When I first saw the title of the thread I was remembering another thread where there was some kind of conflict between the owners of one of Joe's planes. :D
Hmmm, if I only could get them both into the plane at the same time

Does the T28 have this procedure in the POH or somewhere in the military documentation ? I would be concerned about the canopy getting blown out of it's frame or damage during subsequent attempts to slide it back forward (is the pax in the rear seat ?).
Yes it does. Lance describe the bail out procedure if the plane is under control.

I'll have to look up the max speed you can open the canopy but we have practiced landing with it open.

Thanks everybody.

Joe
 
I'll have to look up the max speed you can open the canopy but we have practiced landing with it open.

Cool, so you just leave it open and duck after you apply brakes.

Make sure to take a silk-scarf and aviator goggles along.
 
Provided you take appropriate precautions against hitting things on the ground...your friend could be considered an "object", unless of course she's female, in which case I would never consider "objectifying a woman":no:

Actually, no. I'll have to look at the specific FAR, but people are specifically excluded from being considered and "object". If a person jumps out of your plane you are operating under 105. Newspapers, flower bombs, real bombs, those are all objects, just not a person.
 
Actually, no. I'll have to look at the specific FAR, but people are specifically excluded from being considered and "object". If a person jumps out of your plane you are operating under 105. Newspapers, flower bombs, real bombs, those are all objects, just not a person.

Ahhh...I stand corrected.
 
Actually, no. I'll have to look at the specific FAR, but people are specifically excluded from being considered and "object". If a person jumps out of your plane you are operating under 105. Newspapers, flower bombs, real bombs, those are all objects, just not a person.

What if they're dead? Is a corpse an object?
 
I'll have to look up the max speed you can open the canopy but we have practiced landing with it open.

That is a "popular" thing to do with a Pitts (with no canopy) - you can find several videos if you search.
 
One thing you have to look out for as the PIC of the jump aircraft is that the skydivers reserve has been packed within the preceeding 180 days by a FAA certified parachute rigger.

Other than that, part 105 is your friend. Your best bet may be to talk to a dropzone and do this in coordination with them and over their airport. Avoids unneccessary excitement of paid goverment servants. Remember, you pay their healthcare, you don't want them to wear out their little hearts prematurely.
 
Should your friend seriously injure or kill herself/himself, you can bet the family lawyer will be very interested just how deep your pockets really are, and your insurance company's. The lawyer will be pouring over every regulation that could possibly concern that flight.

There are companies almost everywhere that specialize in flying jumpers. They have the proper equipment, knowhow, and insurance. It is not just the price of fuel that makes a jump so expensive.

How much do you think it would cost to provide medical care and maintenance to a paraplegic for the rest of their lives?

I would suggest you chat with your insurance company before you do anything.

John
 
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The reason for this project is not to jump out of A aircraft but to jump out of a T28.
 
The reason for this project is not to jump out of A aircraft but to jump out of a T28.

It had better be an absolutely perfect T-28. You should also be able to prove that a T-28 is suitable for parachuting from. It would help if you could show evidence that it had been done by others many times in the past. The lawyers will not much care about the motivation behind the jump unless they can prove recklessness on the pilots and owners part.

When P.I. attorneys come slathering after you, they will want to squeeze every drop of blood out of you. Not one stone will be left unturned. When they have exhausted your insurance, they will be after everything you have or are capable of getting for the rest of your days.

John
 
It had better be an absolutely perfect T-28. You should also be able to prove that a T-28 is suitable for parachuting from.
While I agree that it would be wise to confirm that this is covered by your insurance, I have to say that I've seen a fair number of "Jump" airplanes and the words "absolutely perfect" never entered my mind WRT the condition of those planes. "Well worn" and in some cases "downright shoddy" seemed more appropriate. In all likelihood they were as "airworthy" as some of the rentals I've seen used in training but the list of deferred maintenance items and inop equipment had to be pretty long.
 
While I agree that it would be wise to confirm that this is covered by your insurance, I have to say that I've seen a fair number of "Jump" airplanes and the words "absolutely perfect" never entered my mind WRT the condition of those planes. "Well worn" and in some cases "downright shoddy" seemed more appropriate. In all likelihood they were as "airworthy" as some of the rentals I've seen used in training but the list of deferred maintenance items and inop equipment had to be pretty long.

We all know that, they look like flying wrecks most of the time. However, when a lawyer is attempting to extract money from you or your insurance company, everything is fair game.

So you have your jumper sign a waiver to hold you harmless should they become seriously injured, the lawyer won't care about that. It will be left for a court to decide that had the jumper known your aircraft was short one quart of oil, the waiver never would have been signed in the first place.

We all think we can do things to protect ourselves from lawsuits, like have insurance, have waivers signed, make sure we and our airplanes are current and compliant with all the regs, etc. Yet none of that means a thing until a court decides it does.

The point of all this is, why risk so much to have a few minutes of fun?

John
 
My big concern would be blinding myself in all the dirt and grit falling out of the cockpit floor while hanging inverted during the jumper's exit. I remember the time we were on the way across the country in a couple of A-6's, cruising along at FL 290. Suddenly, Lead pipes up with a request for a block altitude 280-290. Center approves, and lead says "Two, move it out." Not knowing what to expect, we put a healthy distance between Lead and us. Suddenly, Lead rolls inverted, and hangs there. We can see the B/N reaching up (down?) and grabbing around at the top of the canopy. Then Lead rolls upright, calls us in, and reports level at 290 again. When we land, they explain that the B/N dropped a pencil, and they were afraid it would go through the gaps in the floor and into the control cables/pulleys, so they rolled inverted to get it to drop to the ceiling, so to speak. Only trouble was so did about ten years of dust, dirt, grit, and other bits of effluvium, and it took them half an hour to get all that crap out of their eyes.
 
The point of all this is, why risk so much to have a few minutes of fun?

John

That same could be said for almost any flight involving a passenger, even one where the number of passengers is the same on landing as on takeoff.
 
It had better be an absolutely perfect T-28. You should also be able to prove that a T-28 is suitable for parachuting from. It would help if you could show evidence that it had been done by others many times in the past. The lawyers will not much care about the motivation behind the jump unless they can prove recklessness on the pilots and owners part.

Say, if you fire up your lawnmower, do you go through the same mental masturbation ?

Yes, there is litigation around skydiving, 99% of which deals either with tandem students or AFF students. Rarely, accidents of experienced skydivers lead to litigation and if they do, they don't usually go far. Every time you pack your chute, the last panel you see before you stick the sucker into the deployment bag has a big orange placard:

'Skydiving is an inherently dangerous activity that may end in serious injury or death. The uninsured Relative Workshop, Inc'.


It is the cases of people brought in by a flyer in the hotel lobby and are taken up in a tandem rig and break an ankle in a gopher-hole that go to litigation. Not the experienced skydiver who, knowing the risks, jumps out of a biplane, balloon or from the tail of a Beech 18.

I have jumped out of a 727 and from the rails of a Bell412, yes, both times gosh, I could have died.

The only insurance concern I would have is if the skydiver pulls the canopy off its rails, tears my upholstery or scratches my paintjob. The more responsible skydivers carry insurance, e.g. through USPA for that risk.

Stick to whatever part105 prescribes, do it at a NOTAM'd dropzone, make the agreed upon radio calls, don't launch through clouds and don't f### up.
 
Did you jump the jet at Quincy? What year? If the phrase "what do you mean their all gone? I'm going 250kts!" is familiar PM me.

Early/mid 90s, Quincy. No the phrase is not familiar.
 
Great thread!

But I keep hearing over and over in my head some loose bandido dialect, "Insurance, we don' need no stinkin' insurance"!
 
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