Can I (the CFI) edit a Foreflight Logbook entry (remotely)?

RussR

RussR

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I love electronic logbooks - as a pilot*. But as a CFI, I dislike Foreflight Logbook - I don't think it's very well implemented, AND it routinely seems to overestimate flight time by about 0.2 (or it logs the drive home from the airport). As a CFI, I don't like typing in my comments, having it autocorrect various aviation terms, going back and fixing them, etc. It's just generally a PITA from a CFI standpoint. It easily take 2-3 times as long to make an entry than it does on paper.

But my question today is - is it possible for me as the CFI to edit an entry submitted remotely? I don't see that as an option.

I have some clients who always want to just make the entry at home, and then submit it to me. Primarily for occasional refresher training. The problem is, it's so easy to make a mistake - most recently it was the tail number of the airplane, and he entered "actual instrument" instead of "simulated instrument".

As far as I know, I have to reject it, have him correct it, and resubmit it. It would be far easier if I had the ability to edit the entries myself, and then maybe sign and submit to him for his review and approval.

Anybody know if this is an option or setting somewhere?

* I am a big fan of MyFlightBook, and use it for my own logging. To be fair, I don't have any clients that use it (yet), so I don't know how well it works as a CFI.
 
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RussR said:
I love electronic logbooks - as a pilot*. But as a CFI, I dislike Foreflight Logbook - I don't think it's very well implemented, AND it routinely seems to overestimate flight time by about 0.2 (or it logs the drive home from the airport). As a CFI, I don't like typing in my comments, having it autocorrect various aviation terms, going back and fixing them, etc. It's just generally a PITA from a CFI standpoint. It easily take 2-3 times as long to make an entry than it does on paper.

But my question today is - is it possible for me as the CFI to edit an entry submitted remotely? I don't see that as an option.

I have some clients who always want to just make the entry at home, and then submit it to me. Primarily for occasional refresher training. The problem is, it's so easy to make a mistake - most recently it was the tail number of the airplane, and he entered "actual instrument" instead of "simulated instrument".

As far as I know, I have to reject it, have him correct it, and resubmit it. It would be far easier if I had the ability to edit the entries myself, and then maybe sign and submit to him for his review and approval.

Anybody know if this is an option or setting somewhere?

* I am a big fan of MyFlightBook, and use it for my own logging. To be fair, I don't have any clients that use it (yet), so I don't know how well it works as a CFI.
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You would need your students login and password to access their FF it seems? Do you have that info for each student?
Otherwise ...

I would only fill out a official paper log book for your students and let them manage their electronic logs themselves.

My FF auto starts the record and sometimes it does not shut off on time like you said. I only use it a reference and use the hobbs times to enter my flight time.

It wasn't up to me what the instructor put in my paper logs, he did not need my approval.
 
Gary Ward said:
I would only fill out a official paper log book for your students and let them manage their electronic logs themselves.
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I guess that's your choice. CFIs who don't want to sign a digital logbook is the only reason my paper one is used at all. It has only one entity since 2017 when I became comfortable with digital endorsements.

It wasn't up to me what the instructor put in my paper logs, he did not need my approval.
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How did he get access to your logbook without your permission?

@RussR, sorry. Noe of my trainees use the FF logbook enough for me to have come across that issue (and I don't use it myself). I know that MyFlightBook does permit CFIs to edit flights when a trainee has asked for a signature. If you don't get a good answer, if you want to create a dummy flight and ask me to try to edit it, PM or email me and I'd be happy to give it a try.[/quote]
 
midlifeflyer said:
I guess that's your choice. CFIs who don't want to sign a digital logbook is the only reason my paper one is used at all. It has only one entity since 2017 when I became comfortable with digital endorsements.


How did he get access to your logbook without your permission?

@RussR, sorry. Noe of my trainees use the FF logbook enough for me to have come across that issue (and I don't use it myself). I know that MyFlightBook does permit CFIs to edit flights when a trainee has asked for a signature. If you don't get a good answer, if you want to create a dummy flight and ask me to try to edit it, PM or email me and I'd be happy to give it a try.
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[/QUOTE]

Yes I am a paper log kind of guy. I do use FF for every flight since 2016 .
I would hand the log book to my instructor after the flight and what he put in there was not up to me.
I used FF at the end of my training but did not have FF, ADS-B in or a I pad when I started training.

How does BFR and IPC work with ELB?
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I guess that's your choice. CFIs who don't want to sign a digital logbook is the only reason my paper one is used at all. It has only one entity since 2017 when I became comfortable with digital endorsements.


How did he get access to your logbook without your permission?
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I will sign logbooks digitally, but not if I have to purchase product or download the App product you use to do it. That’s why paper is going to be with us for a long time.
 

Yes I am a paper log kind of guy. I do use FF for every flight since 2016 .
I would hand the log book to my instructor after the flight and what he put in there was not up to me.
I used FF at the end of my training but did not have FF, ADS-B in or a I pad when I started training.

How does BFR and IPC work with ELB?[/QUOTE]
As someone else posted, electronic or digital signatures, like 90% of B2B transactions these days.

"FF, ADS-B in or a I pad" ??? LOL! I was all excited when DUAT came along so I could get a weather briefing using a 300 baud modem on a PCXT clone :D
 
Clip4 said:
I will sign logbooks digitally, but not if I have to purchase product or download the App product you use to do it. That’s why paper is going to be with us for a long time.
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Neither Foreflight nor MyFlightBook require the CFI to buy or download anything they don't want to (I don't know about any of the others). You can, as @ytodd showed, sign the student's logbook with your finger or a stylus.

But that's why I keep my paper logbook. For some instructors it's not about downloading or buying; just a level of discomfort with technology that's really only been around, practically speaking for less than 25 years (ESIGN and UETA are both 2000). My movement to being fully digital for my logbook came in stages as I became more comfortable with the way I thought the FAA viewed the issue. I stopped using paper in 2013 for my own entries but continued to use it for third-party signatures until almost 5 years later.

And still, if I am going to receive instruction or an endorsement, I ask whether the instructor has a problem with a digital logbook. If the answer is "yes," I bring the paper one. No big deal either way. And when I give instruction, I take the cue from the student. Happy to sign paper or plastic or both.
 
Hi.

If a student uses an Electronic log, he / she can do it on their own.

You need to write what was performed and the real time you determined that is correct, in a Paper log book.

The Flight and Ground time you logged has to be the same as the student’s log as Dual given.

Hobbs is most commonly used, but by other's recommendations including the FAA, can start at other phases, as long as you are consistent and they are the same for both of you, you are fine. A small difference is typically a none issue until something happens and others look at the data.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Neither Foreflight nor MyFlightBook require the CFI to buy or download anything they don't want to (I don't know about any of the others). You can, as @ytodd showed, sign the student's logbook with your finger or a stylus.

But that's why I keep my paper logbook. For some instructors it's not about downloading or buying; just a level of discomfort with technology that's really only been around, practically speaking for less than 25 years (ESIGN and UETA are both 2000). My movement to being fully digital for my logbook came in stages as I became more comfortable with the way I thought the FAA viewed the issue. I stopped using paper in 2013 for my own entries but continued to use it for third-party signatures until almost 5 years later.

And still, if I am going to receive instruction or an endorsement, I ask whether the instructor has a problem with a digital logbook. If the answer is "yes," I bring the paper one. No big deal either way. And when I give instruction, I take the cue from the student. Happy to sign paper or plastic or both.
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I still have a paper logbook in my bag, but haven't used it in years. No CFI has balked at signing in My Flightbook once I explain it. That's where all my endorsements are too. Even took a checkride with nothing more than a MyFlightbook printout. It's 2021 for Pete's sake. Any instructor who still has a problem with electronic logs needs to catch up!
 
I have everything in ForeFlight, it’s pretty easy especially when you use the manual record button, and probably the best logging system out there when combines with using ForeFlight tracks, I’d say just pay closer attention when filling out their logs (just like you would on a paper log). It would be a red flag for me if a CFI couldn’t figure out ForeFlight
 
BladeSlap said:
It would be a red flag for me if a CFI couldn’t figure out ForeFlight
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What if he just doesn't want to figure out ForeFlight?

When it comes to digital logs, I was an early adopter (is 1992 early enough to say that?). I don't use ForeFlight's logbook, but I'm happy to sign whatever logbook a pilot gives me.

But I'm agnostic about it. I don't look up to someone who's "mastered" the ability to scrawl a signature on an iPad any more than I look down on someone who doesn't want to create an account (generally preferred for electronic signatures) in an app they don't use.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What if he just doesn't want to figure out ForeFlight?

When it comes to digital logs, I was an early adopter (is 1992 early enough to say that?). I don't use ForeFlight's logbook, but I'm happy to sign whatever logbook a pilot gives me.

But I'm agnostic about it. I don't look up to someone who's "mastered" the ability to scrawl a signature on an iPad any more than I look down on someone who doesn't want to create an account (generally preferred for electronic signatures) in an app they don't use.
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If he doesn’t want to adapt to the technologies the industry has adopted (EFBs and digital) I’m not interesting in hiring him, it’s very easy and costs nothing even if the instructor doesn’t want to invest a little in his profession for a basic subscription. Lots of instructors to pick from, why would I spend my hard earned money on someone who’s going to require me to change to hire them, and isn’t up to speed with the industry they work in?
 
BladeSlap said:
If he doesn’t want to adapt to the technologies the industry has adopted (EFBs and digital) I’m not interesting in hiring him, it’s very easy and costs nothing even if the instructor doesn’t want to invest a little in his profession for a basic subscription. Lots of instructors to pick from, why would I spend my hard earned money on someone who’s going to require me to change to hire them, and isn’t up to speed with the industry they work in?
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What if they are the single best tailwheel transition instructor in the entire state? The best back country instructor in the mountain region? I'm not passing them by just because they don't use an eLog. YRMV.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What if they are the single best tailwheel transition instructor in the entire state? The best back country instructor in the mountain region? I'm not passing them by just because they don't use an eLog. YRMV.
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Probably arnt the best

The best adapt and always want to learn more, the best would be all over learning a simple program that makes things bette and easier.

And if they are the best, and it’s your initial tailwheel, just get the second best who isn’t trying to be difficult, doubt it will make a difference long term for you.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I know that MyFlightBook does permit CFIs to edit flights when a trainee has asked for a signature.
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No, it doesn't.

This is for MyFlightBook. I can't say for Foreflight's but it makes enough sense to me that the theory might be the same.

Because it is our student's logbook and not ours, we can't edit what out students put in it. So, if there is something which needs to be changed, the student needs to change it. OTOH, in the case of MFB (dunno about Foreflight) when the CFI signature is requested remotely, there is an extra field for instructor comments, so we can add narrative to the entry.

This is what I saw which originally made me think we could. In MFB, the student can give the CFI permission create entries in the student's logbook. It's the electronic equivalent of handing us the blank paper logbook to write the training entry.
 
midlifeflyer said:
No, it doesn't.

This is for MyFlightBook. I can't say for Foreflight's but it makes enough sense to me that the theory might be the same.

Because it is our student's logbook and not ours, we can't edit what out students put in it. So, if there is something which needs to be changed, the student needs to change it. OTOH, in the case of MFB (dunno about Foreflight) when the CFI signature is requested remotely, there is an extra field for instructor comments, so we can add narrative to the entry.

This is what I saw which originally made me think we could. In MFB, the student can give the CFI permission create entries in the student's logbook. It's the electronic equivalent of handing us the blank paper logbook to write the training entry.
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(Mark and I did a test of this earlier today.)

I agree in principle that "it's the student's logbook, the CFI shouldn't be changing anything". But in practice, there can be a better solution.

I mean, it's pretty common when filling out a paper logbook to say something like "how many landings was that? 4 or 5?" and the two of you figure it out. Or if the student writes something in there wrong, you discuss it and fix it right then.

For remote signing, I'm thinking something like:
- the student types in their entry and submits it to the CFI.
- the CFI checks it. If something isn't right, the CFI can enter a "pending" correct value and then signs it.
- the app then sends the student a message like "The CFI changed Sim Inst time from 2.0 to 0.3 - please confirm" and then there's a "yes/no" button to confirm the change.
- if the student confirms it, then all is done. The CFI already signed the version with that information.
- if the student does not confirm it, then, I don't know, maybe it just sends a message "hey you two, call each other and figure it out"
 
RussR said:
(Mark and I did a test of this earlier today.)

I agree in principle that "it's the student's logbook, the CFI shouldn't be changing anything". But in practice, there can be a better solution.

I mean, it's pretty common when filling out a paper logbook to say something like "how many landings was that? 4 or 5?" and the two of you figure it out. Or if the student writes something in there wrong, you discuss it and fix it right then.

For remote signing, I'm thinking something like:
- the student types in their entry and submits it to the CFI.
- the CFI checks it. If something isn't right, the CFI can enter a "pending" correct value and then signs it.
- the app then sends the student a message like "The CFI changed Sim Inst time from 2.0 to 0.3 - please confirm" and then there's a "yes/no" button to confirm the change.
- if the student confirms it, then all is done. The CFI already signed the version with that information.
- if the student does not confirm it, then, I don't know, maybe it just sends a message "hey you two, call each other and figure it out"
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Yeah. I guess it's a developer choice. I can see reasons for having that discussion outside the app.
 
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