Can ATC issue arrival procedures to airports not associated with the STAR?

[gismo]

On the GNS480 users group list, a few pilots indicated that a controller had assigned them a start to an airport in the same general area as their filed destination when that STAR was not listed as applicable for that dest. I'm wondering if this is kosher.

It causes a problem when flying with a 480 because on that device you can only load approaches and arrival procedures that lead to the programmed destination. This means that when flying to airport ABC, the pilot must switch the destination to XYZ to load an arrival proc to XYX, then reload the original dest and approach once the flight completes or is directed away from the arrival proc. The result is a significant amount of button pushing / knob turning in a short period and in addition leaves little or no time to examine the waypoint list and graphics of the approach prior to beginning the approach.

There's also the issue of no clear path to follow from the arrival proc to the intended IAF (with radio failure) since that won't be in the STAR. My advice when asked how to cope with this was to reply "unable" to ATC when they issue such a clearance, but it left me wondering if such a clearance should have been given in the first place.

 

[Everskyward]

What airport was this? The reason I ask is that I was wondering if the pilot was using Jepp charts and didn't realize that sometimes the SIDS and STARS are not filed with the individual airport but with a bigger airport in the vicinity. There is a notation on the same page as the airport diagram. For example, here is Addison, TX.

I agree that the way many GPSs and FMSs are set up they won't allow you to enter a STAR for an airport where it is not authorized. I can't ever remember this happening to me.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

As far as the (extemely unlikely but oft-voiced) lostcomm scenario..many stars are 'vectors to final' anyway, so I'm not sure the concern is too real.

 

[Areeda]

I think Lance is referring to the GPS issue and not the charts.

It is common practice in the LA Basin to issue Ontario's STARs to arrivals for any airport in the Inland Empire.

I can't put them into the 430W either (maybe I just don't know how).

Joe

 

[roncachamp]

On the GNS480 users group list, a few pilots indicated that a controller had assigned them a start to an airport in the same general area as their filed destination when that STAR was not listed as applicable for that dest. I'm wondering if this is kosher.

It causes a problem when flying with a 480 because on that device you can only load approaches and arrival procedures that lead to the programmed destination. This means that when flying to airport ABC, the pilot must switch the destination to XYZ to load an arrival proc to XYX, then reload the original dest and approach once the flight completes or is directed away from the arrival proc. The result is a significant amount of button pushing / knob turning in a short period and in addition leaves little or no time to examine the waypoint list and graphics of the approach prior to beginning the approach.

There's also the issue of no clear path to follow from the arrival proc to the intended IAF (with radio failure) since that won't be in the STAR. My advice when asked how to cope with this was to reply "unable" to ATC when they issue such a clearance, but it left me wondering if such a clearance should have been given in the first place.

I don't believe FAAO 7110.65 addresses this at all. I don't see why it would need to, how can a route be issued that doesn't go to the destination?

What airport and STAR are we talking about?

 

[gismo]

Here's the original query:

I was on an IFR flight plan into 5C1 near San Antonio, coming in from the east. Center passed me to Austin Approach, who began stepping me down. Then the controller told me to fly "direct MARCS, MARCS8 arrival, direct 5C1."

Since my destination was 5C1, the 480 told me that there weren't any arrival procedures available. I knew how to spell MARCS, pulled it up from the data base, and headed there while I had my wife scramble in the "way back" for the paper copies of the Terminal Procedures.

The MARCS8 arrival is simple, fortunately, but I was surprised by the instructions.

ATC was clearly using the existing arrival procedure to SAT to manage all the incoming traffic into the area. SAT Approach eventually give me a "direct 5C1" after some traffic passed. Any suggestions on how to load arrival procedures for nearby airports?

 

[wsuffa]

It won't make you any friends, but "unable STAR" will work. Or ask for the intersections & altitude assignment. MARCS8 is not listed for 5C1, so you could make an arguable case that you don't have the STAR as your primary airport is not listed.

In San Antonio, at least, the critical part is that you cross MARCS intersection. I believe that to be in the traffic management agreement with Austin. You will get some kind of vector from MARCS (and sometimes before MARCS) unless you're going into SAT.

Apparently the ATC folks don't know what can/can't be readily loaded in a GPS. The only real alternative is to load a nearby airport to get the procedure, then reload the desired endpoint once you get on vectors. I sure wouldn't want to be doing that during a busy approach in IMC.

 

[roncachamp]

Here's the original query:

I was on an IFR flight plan into 5C1 near San Antonio, coming in from the east. Center passed me to Austin Approach, who began stepping me down. Then the controller told me to fly "direct MARCS, MARCS8 arrival, direct 5C1."

There's no advantage in issuing the STAR in this case, "MARCS8 arrival" could have been replaced with "V68 CRISS".

 

[gismo]

There's no advantage in issuing the STAR in this case, "MARCS8 arrival" could have been replaced with "V68 CRISS".

Works for me (and would be easy to put in the 480).

 

[Palmpilot]

I was once on an IFR flight to Palo Alto when ATC gave me a somewhat out of the way routing. After I got home I figured out that they had given me an SFO STAR, except they had spelled it out rather than specifying it by name. Now I see that there could be a good reason for doing it that way.

 

[Ted]

Apparently the ATC folks don't know what can/can't be readily loaded in a GPS. The only real alternative is to load a nearby airport to get the procedure, then reload the desired endpoint once you get on vectors. I sure wouldn't want to be doing that during a busy approach in IMC.

That's what I was wondering - is it possible to just program in the airport applicable to the STAR, and then do a direct to the actual destination when assigned? Maybe a bit cumbersome, but would work.

 

[ghogue]

I don't remember anything specific about normal STAR's, however a RNAV STAR must be retrievable from the database. I don't believe any STAR is allowed to be issued unless it is specified for the destination airport. It may happen, but I think it would be an improper clearance from ATC.

To quote Steven above "how can a route be issued that doesn't go to the destination?"

gary

 

[gismo]

That's what I was wondering - is it possible to just program in the airport applicable to the STAR, and then do a direct to the actual destination when assigned? Maybe a bit cumbersome, but would work.

That can be done but this drops any preloaded approaches and precludes selecting an approach until the direct to the original destination is applied. And since that will drop the arrival procedure, it can't be done until you're vectored off the STAR, possibly way to close to the beginning of the approach to be fiddling with the loading of an approach.