C150F N7893F crash near KSQI 7/24/21

PeterNSteinmetz said:
Aircraft was N7893F, a C150F from 1966.
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Ah. That version didn't have limit switches. It had a DPDT flap control switch in the panel that was sprung back to center from either up or down positions. The jackscrew had a slip clutch to prevent jamming if the switch was held up or down and the flaps reached their travel limit. I used to find those switches with broken springs so that they'd stay either up or down, or sometimes both springs were broken.

So if the flaps didn't retract, it might be a jackscrew problem, or a blown fuse, or the switch failed. That's the problem with electric flaps: failure is more likely in that system than with the old manual flap system. Electric stuff fails much more often than mechanical stuff.
 
I wonder if they left the carb heat on. 2 up + O200 + hot and humid + carb heat + flaps = no bueno.
 
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GeorgeC said:
I wonder if they left the carb heat on. 2 up + O200 + hot and humid + carb heat + flaps = no bueno.
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I don’t understand why all planes don’t have a carb throat temperature gauge. The Beaver has one and it’s wonderful. In the green? No Carb heat. Yellow? Carb Heat.
 
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Pilawt said:
Arriving from Arizona, I was somewhat amused by this sign at an FBO/flight school in the Pacific Northwest:

View attachment 98577
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I would imagine that pilots from the north arriving in Arizona would be amused to see a flight-school sign saying that engines must be preheated when temperatures are below 50°F.

We would sometimes get students from warmer places arriving on the Canadian prairies. I would warn them that their cars had better have antifreeze good for -40°F/C. And a good battery. And really light engine oil. And warm clothing. "No way," some of them would say. "No such cold as that." Well, after the first blizzard of -35°C with a wind chill of -50°C, they'd start taking us seriously. -50°C is -58°F.
 
sarangan said:
I teach "normal" landings with partial flaps, and reserve full flaps only when circumstances warrant. Cessna's flaps are very effective, which makes a forward slip an unnecessary maneuver in most cases. Additionally, this is one situation where a 20-deg flap would have resulted in a non-event. I get some flak for doing most landings with 20-deg flaps, but it makes go-arounds easier, and a longer float (which is actually useful for teaching the roundout and flare because it lasts longer). Short field, soft fields and engine out landings of course should be done with full flaps.
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that’s how I do all my 172 landings, 20 degrees is plenty to allow slower flight and ya hit your air speeds and land the plane, if a go around is necessary I have one less urgent task of dealing flaps to be able to climb… in my c140 I use 20-40 but they are manual and very small compared to “modern” cessnas…
 
Dan Thomas said:
Ah. That version didn't have limit switches. It had a DPDT flap control switch in the panel that was sprung back to center from either up or down positions. The jackscrew had a slip clutch to prevent jamming if the switch was held up or down and the flaps reached their travel limit. I used to find those switches with broken springs so that they'd stay either up or down, or sometimes both springs were broken.

So if the flaps didn't retract, it might be a jackscrew problem, or a blown fuse, or the switch failed. That's the problem with electric flaps: failure is more likely in that system than with the old manual flap system. Electric stuff fails much more often than mechanical stuff.
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Did earlier versions of the 150 have manual flaps instead of electric? I seem to remember flying one like that.
 
Palmpilot said:
Did earlier versions of the 150 have manual flaps instead of electric? I seem to remember flying one like that.
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1966 C-150F was the first model with electric flaps. 1959-1965 models had manual flaps. Easy to tell at a glance - all "square-tail" 150s had manual flaps; all swept-tail 150s had electric flaps.

Apparently the aircraft in the accident under discussion was a 150F.

Screen Shot 2021-07-26 at 12.39.26 PM.jpg
 
Jim K said:
Electric flaps. Was there a more useless feature ever invented?
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“let’s take something that works great and make it more expensive, less useful and more prone to failure” I think that was the driving force of electric flaps
 
Huckster79 said:
“let’s take something that works great and make it more expensive, less useful and more prone to failure” I think that was the driving force of electric flaps
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You forgot heavier and reliant on the electrical system.
 
I land with 40 degrees flaps all the time, but in a PA-28. Mechanical flaps are great. But the Johnson bar system seems much easier to use and less likely to get in the way in a low wing than a 150.
 
Albany Tom said:
I land with 40 degrees flaps all the time, but in a PA-28. Mechanical flaps are great. But the Johnson bar system seems much easier to use and less likely to get in the way in a low wing than a 150.
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mine sits between the seats and works just dandy on the c150s father the ol c140…
 
Huckster79 said:
mine sits between the seats and works just dandy on the c150s father the ol c140…
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Well that's pretty cool. From the service manual, it's more complicated than the pa-28's, but not any more complicated than the ailerons.
 
Palmpilot said:
I liked it on the one flight I had in a 150.
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yea it’s handy as heck… of course mine aren’t all that effective on the 140 but they work great for pippin ya in the air on take off and ya can dump em sooner as I bleed em off with my “gut gauge” to not get that dip from dumping em but getting rid of em asap.
 
Your conditions or 150's must be much bettter than what I've flown. I have aprox 100 hours in 4 or 5 different 150's, and with 40 deg of flaps out, NONE of them will give you a positive climb rate with 2 people. Solo, it would maintain altitude long enough to pull the flaps up to 20 degrees on say a bounced landing.
Cap'n Jack said:
It depends on the conditions during the flight. I did a full-flap go-around recently in a C-150 add it climbed out well for me. It wasn't super hot or anything like that. The 152 flap limit is 30°.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What was between the STOL "runway" and the corn field that made it necessary to crash in the corn instead of just landing and overrunning the defined end of the "runway"?
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A nice straight long road.
It's interesting to see the plane oriented 180 degrees from the departure direction.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Dan Gryder was asked by another pilot to take a flight in his plane. (ACCA rumor mill was that it was a post maintenance test flight)
They came in over the grass field w/ 40 degrees of flaps but didn't want to put it in the grass so they did a low approach.
Dan went to retract the flaps and they did not retract.

The grass field in question is the 400 foot STOL runway.

I was in the air and it happened beneath me.

I heard a radio call that a plane had gone down in a corn field.
I stated I would look and orbit.

I located the crash and guys it looked really bad.
The plane was on its back and the radio got really busy with Chicago center and emergency vehicles and every pilot in the air.

I landed and later, spoke to Dan and he said the flaps wouldn't come up and they were out of runway.
The plane wouldn't climb and was starting to wabble a bit.

They were headed for some houses so Dan opted for the corn field.

They went in and he said the roll over was very gentle.

Dan and his passenger were uninjured. It looked like the plane was totaled.

It was a really sickening feeling to hear everything on the radio and see that plane upside down in the corn field

The show went on but the feeling changed. Hard to explain.
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Well, Gryder is a "wabble" wowzer.... Good write up Bryan, glad no one was hurt.
 
I’m very curious to know if it was a post mx flight. Dan did mention it just had a new battery put in so we know at least that much mx was done.
 
G-force said:
Your conditions or 150's must be much bettter than what I've flown. I have aprox 100 hours in 4 or 5 different 150's, and with 40 deg of flaps out, NONE of them will give you a positive climb rate with 2 people. Solo, it would maintain altitude long enough to pull the flaps up to 20 degrees on say a bounced landing.
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No, I learned to fly with 150's at Solberg. We did go-arounds, as you'd expect. Summer, winter, it didn't matter, it climbed slowly with both of us. Denver in summer? It probably would have been different.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
No, I learned to fly with 150's at Solberg. We did go-arounds, as you'd expect. Summer, winter, it didn't matter, it climbed slowly with both of us. Denver in summer? It probably would have been different.
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This. I learned in 150s, albeit at sea level. I remember not being allowed to use 40 degrees of flaps pre-solo, but post-solo that's how short field, and some other landings were done. I don't remember any problems with inability to go around.
 
Everskyward said:
This. I learned in 150s, albeit at sea level. I remember not being allowed to use 40 degrees of flaps pre-solo, but post-solo that's how short field, and some other landings were done. I don't remember any problems with inability to go around.
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I’m a big person. I have a suspicion I know why we had different experiences.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
It depends on the conditions during the flight. I did a full-flap go-around recently in a C-150 add it climbed out well for me.
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Everskyward said:
This. I learned in 150s, albeit at sea level. I remember not being allowed to use 40 degrees of flaps pre-solo, but post-solo that's how short field, and some other landings were done. I don't remember any problems with inability to go around.
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What are you people talking about? You guys go-around and leave the flaps at 40° for the rest of the flight? o_O
 
dmspilot said:
What are you people talking about? You guys go-around and leave the flaps at 40° for the rest of the flight? o_O
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Of course not. Throttle in, carb-heat off, start climbing, gradually retract flaps.

Why do you think we'd leave the flaps at 40° for the rest of the flight?
 
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